An ARZone Question - Animal Rights Zone2024-03-29T08:32:52Zhttp://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/an-arzone-question?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A92666&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSSCS Philadelphia cancelled t…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-04:4715978:Comment:937992012-05-04T08:24:43.353ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>SSCS Philadelphia cancelled this event this afternoon, citing:</p>
<blockquote><p><br></br><span>SSCS PHILLY has canceled the Cape May Harbor Fest celebration. We appreciate the concern about the heavy commercial fishing presence, this was not disclosed to us when receiving information and talking with the Nature Center. It would be a great event to stand in opposition but it seems the majority of the event is in support of the fishing industry. Apologies for any…</span></p>
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<p>SSCS Philadelphia cancelled this event this afternoon, citing:</p>
<blockquote><p><br/><span>SSCS PHILLY has canceled the Cape May Harbor Fest celebration. We appreciate the concern about the heavy commercial fishing presence, this was not disclosed to us when receiving information and talking with the Nature Center. It would be a great event to stand in opposition but it seems the majority of the event is in support of the fishing industry. Apologies for any confusion.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/seashepherdphilly/posts/426542290690834?comment_id=5462064&notif_t=like">https://www.facebook.com/seashepherdphilly/posts/426542290690834?comment_id=5462064&notif_t=like</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p> No they shouldn't. I'm wonde…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-04:4715978:Comment:938922012-05-04T08:02:13.161ZKerry Bakerhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/KerryBaker
<p>No they shouldn't. I'm wondering if Captain Watson is aware of this. This may seem a bit bizarre, but do you think it's possible that they have been infiltrated by saboteurs? It has been known for several decades that companies will get their employees onto boards and policy-making forums to make sure that their interests are not damaged. Unless these things have been happening without being picked up until now, it does seem a bit suspicious that they are going to these events. The only…</p>
<p>No they shouldn't. I'm wondering if Captain Watson is aware of this. This may seem a bit bizarre, but do you think it's possible that they have been infiltrated by saboteurs? It has been known for several decades that companies will get their employees onto boards and policy-making forums to make sure that their interests are not damaged. Unless these things have been happening without being picked up until now, it does seem a bit suspicious that they are going to these events. The only other explanation I can think of is that by being there they may influence which fish are taken and try to make sure that the 'conservation' viewpoint is represented.</p> Anyone who knows me, knows I…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-04:4715978:Comment:937962012-05-04T02:14:21.458ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p><span>Anyone who knows me, knows I support SSCS, and Paul Watson. I respect Captain Watson and the work he does to raise awareness of the state of the world's oceans, and I believe the planet is a far better place for him being here. But, I find this new event, from the same chapter of SS (Philadelphia) to be incredibly problematic, arrogant, thoughtless and a little embarrassing.<br></br> </span></p>
<p><span>Harbor Fest is a <strong><em>celebration of seafood.</em></strong> […</span></p>
<p><span>Anyone who knows me, knows I support SSCS, and Paul Watson. I respect Captain Watson and the work he does to raise awareness of the state of the world's oceans, and I believe the planet is a far better place for him being here. But, I find this new event, from the same chapter of SS (Philadelphia) to be incredibly problematic, arrogant, thoughtless and a little embarrassing.<br/> </span></p>
<p><span>Harbor Fest is a <strong><em>celebration of seafood.</em></strong> [</span><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.capemayharborfest.com/#events">http://www.capemayharborfest.com/#events</a><span>]</span><br/><br/><span>Is this an event Sea Shepherd should be supporting? More whales die each year due to starvation because humans are eating the oceans to death, than are killed by whalers, yet Sea Shepherd Philadelphia deem it appropriate to celebrate and support a "celebration of seafood"? Seriously? Do they not see the problem with this, or do they just not care?</span></p> Should an "ocean conservation…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-04:4715978:Comment:938862012-05-04T01:42:22.313ZShelia Gavinhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/SheliaGavin
<p>Should an "ocean conservation organization" be supporting a seafood festival then? </p>
<p>Here is their link that says they will be there, but notice they don't mention that it's about seafood - </p>
<p><br></br><a href="http://www.facebook.com/events/449524201730887/" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/events/449524201730887/</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>This is the website for the festival. Please be sure to watch the short video where you can see a man talking about how the festival promotes…</p>
<p>Should an "ocean conservation organization" be supporting a seafood festival then? </p>
<p>Here is their link that says they will be there, but notice they don't mention that it's about seafood - </p>
<p><br/><a href="http://www.facebook.com/events/449524201730887/" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/events/449524201730887/</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>This is the website for the festival. Please be sure to watch the short video where you can see a man talking about how the festival promotes their commerical fishing industry, you'll see people eating and cooking seafood and something called a Scallop Challenge.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.capemayharborfest.com/#events" target="_blank">http://www.capemayharborfest.com/#events</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>All of this is so upsetting to me because I've read captain watson's books and I don't believe that he would want his volunteers representing his organization like this.</p> Hi Roger, I was referring to…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-03:4715978:Comment:940472012-05-03T06:13:37.127ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>Hi Roger, I was referring to the label Captain Watson would prefer his organisation be referred to as, which I mentioned in a previous comment in this thread: </p>
<blockquote><p>Paul Watson actually explained it in his ARZone Interview himself here as well: <br></br><br></br><a href="http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul">http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul</a><br></br><br></br>In which, when asked: <br></br><br></br></p>
<p>As a follow-up to Tim Gier’s…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hi Roger, I was referring to the label Captain Watson would prefer his organisation be referred to as, which I mentioned in a previous comment in this thread: </p>
<blockquote><p>Paul Watson actually explained it in his ARZone Interview himself here as well: <br/><br/><a href="http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul">http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul</a><br/><br/>In which, when asked: <br/><br/></p>
<p>As a follow-up to Tim Gier’s earlier question, a lot of “animal people” continually insist on classing SSCS as an animal rights organisation, despite the word “conservation” being quite clear in the name. I believe that the direct action of Sea Shepherd is attractive to many people and they therefore like to claim SS as part of their own ideology.</p>
<p>Would you like to clear this issue up for us, as I believe in classing SS as an animal rights organisation, unrealistic expectations are placed on SS.<br/><br/></p>
<p>Captain Watson stated: </p>
<p><br/><span>We are a marine wildlife and habitat conservation organization. We believe that veganism is an answer to many ecological problems. The meat industry produces more greenhouse gas emissions than the auto industry. That’s why I said that a vegan driving a hummer contributes less to greenhouse gas emissions than a meat eater riding a bicycle, but Sea Shepherd promotes veganism as an answer to mitigating our damage to the environment</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p> From my experience, it seems that Captain Watson would prefer not to be regarded as an animal rights/welfare/protection organisation, but as a marine conservation organisation. I think it's fair to respect his wishes. <br/><br/>Of course, they do protect some individuals, as does my neighbour and her neighbour and so on down the line. I don't think that qualifies my neighbours as an animal protection organisation though. </p>
<p></p> I think I agree with you, She…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-02:4715978:Comment:940092012-05-02T06:24:23.498ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>I think I agree with you, Shelia. Although SS are obviously not a rights based organisation, nor an animal protection organisation in any way, I think they should be more aware of the opinions and thoughts of those who support them, and of the implications of supporting an organisation that is proud to commodify, objectify and kill other individuals for financial gain. </p>
<p>I think I agree with you, Shelia. Although SS are obviously not a rights based organisation, nor an animal protection organisation in any way, I think they should be more aware of the opinions and thoughts of those who support them, and of the implications of supporting an organisation that is proud to commodify, objectify and kill other individuals for financial gain. </p> The problem I have with this…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-05-01:4715978:Comment:938032012-05-01T14:44:19.559ZShelia Gavinhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/SheliaGavin
<p>The problem I have with this is not "where does it end?" because as Tim said, no one is 100% vegan, so that's not the point. My sister worked for them and on the event page for the event they wrote: </p>
<p></p>
<p>"NOTE: There has been some discussion about one of the sponsors of the Science Film Festival, Dow Chemicals, and if they will be making any profit from ticket sales on this event. The answer is NO, they are not making any profits from this festival. Dows' roll was simply to put…</p>
<p>The problem I have with this is not "where does it end?" because as Tim said, no one is 100% vegan, so that's not the point. My sister worked for them and on the event page for the event they wrote: </p>
<p></p>
<p>"NOTE: There has been some discussion about one of the sponsors of the Science Film Festival, Dow Chemicals, and if they will be making any profit from ticket sales on this event. The answer is NO, they are not making any profits from this festival. Dows' roll was simply to put forth some of the funds to help pay to advertise and cover the costs of the film rights for the film festival."</p>
<p></p>
<p>They made this disclaimer because they said they didn't want any "controversy." I live in this area and Dow is known for how horribly they treat animals and by going to Dow's event with a table, they are bringing along supporters and giving their stamp of approval for the company. </p>
<p></p>
<p>To me it doesn't matter if Dow didn't make money from them, it's that they were there in their Sea Shepard shirts standing under the Dow Chemical sign and to me that's supporting them. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Thanks Pranav and Carolyn. P…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-04-29:4715978:Comment:931932012-04-29T04:33:47.697ZKerry Bakerhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/KerryBaker
<p>Thanks Pranav and Carolyn. Points taken. But I think by default they are perceived to be an animal rights organisation because of their own record in the media. I have seen Paul Watson speak, and he stresses how beautiful the whales are and what horrible deaths hey go through in the whaling season. Not all whales are endangered (yet) and I'm not sure if SSF targets specific whaling activities towards endangered species of whales or all whales. However, I have seen Paul Watson speak…</p>
<p>Thanks Pranav and Carolyn. Points taken. But I think by default they are perceived to be an animal rights organisation because of their own record in the media. I have seen Paul Watson speak, and he stresses how beautiful the whales are and what horrible deaths hey go through in the whaling season. Not all whales are endangered (yet) and I'm not sure if SSF targets specific whaling activities towards endangered species of whales or all whales. However, I have seen Paul Watson speak passionately about looking into the yes of a whale as she was dying, bonding with her for those moments before death when he had been trying to stop the whalers which is what got him started. So I stand corrected but I do think they are aligned with animal rights regardless of whether they claim to be conservationist. It actually does raise for me a question about conservation, what the difference is really. Conservation only of endangered species or something broader? I can understand arguments based on the science of ecosystems, but then I'd wonder why the emotive issue of the cruelty involved in whaling would be a major issue. based on Paul Watson's observations of cruelty to whales however, I'd still then wonder why they would align with an organisation that uses other animals in experiments. I suspect the public sees SSF as an organisation that opposes cruelty towards whales, and donates to them on this basis. It would be interesting to do some sort of research about perceptions to see if this would or has affected heir support.</p> Hi Pranav, and Kerry,
Paul W…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-04-29:4715978:Comment:935102012-04-29T04:17:13.168ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>Hi Pranav, and Kerry,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Paul Watson actually explained it in his ARZone Interview himself here as well: <br></br><br></br><a href="http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul">http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul</a><br></br><br></br>In which, when asked: <br></br><br></br></p>
<blockquote><p>As a follow-up to Tim Gier’s earlier question, a lot of “animal people” continually insist on classing SSCS as an animal rights organisation, despite the word…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hi Pranav, and Kerry,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Paul Watson actually explained it in his ARZone Interview himself here as well: <br/><br/><a href="http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul">http://arzone.ning.com/profiles/blogs/transcript-of-captain-paul</a><br/><br/>In which, when asked: <br/><br/></p>
<blockquote><p>As a follow-up to Tim Gier’s earlier question, a lot of “animal people” continually insist on classing SSCS as an animal rights organisation, despite the word “conservation” being quite clear in the name. I believe that the direct action of Sea Shepherd is attractive to many people and they therefore like to claim SS as part of their own ideology.</p>
<p>Would you like to clear this issue up for us, as I believe in classing SS as an animal rights organisation, unrealistic expectations are placed on SS.<br/><br/></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Captain Watson stated: </p>
<blockquote><p><br/><span>We are a marine wildlife and habitat conservation organization. We believe that veganism is an answer to many ecological problems. The meat industry produces more greenhouse gas emissions than the auto industry. That’s why I said that a vegan driving a hummer contributes less to greenhouse gas emissions than a meat eater riding a bicycle, but Sea Shepherd promotes veganism as an answer to mitigating our damage to the environment.</span></p>
<p></p>
</blockquote>
<p><br/> <br/></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><cite>Pranav Merchant said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/an-arzone-question?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A93325&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4715978Comment93325"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Kerry, Sea Shepherd is <span style="text-decoration: underline;">not</span> an animal rights organization. It is a conservation organization, and the founder of Sea Shepherd is open about that. Roger Yates explains here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://human-nonhuman.blogspot.com/2010/10/pete-bethune-sea-shepherd-veganism-and_08.html" target="_blank">http://human-nonhuman.blogspot.com/2010/10/pete-bethune-sea-shepher...</a><br/> <br/> <cite>Kerry Baker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/an-arzone-question#4715978Comment93319"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I see a big problem here. In attending a function sponsored by Dow, the Dow company comes out of it being regarded as responsible because they have had the tacit approval of well known animal rights activist. It is if you like similar to the RSPCA allowing their logo to be put on cage eggs in supermarkets, which gives consumers the impression that because they have their stamp of approval, no cruelty occurs.</p>
<p>It is unfortunately a political issue. Where a name is associated with something, it does send a message to the broader, less informed population, that makes them feel more comfortable about not changing their consumer habits. Yes we all need materials to work with, and we can only try to locate those that we think don't involve abuse of animals. I think Sea Shepherd in this instance demonstrated very poor judgement, even tough I understand why they may have decided to do so. Dow has benefited here by appearing to support animal rights activists, Sea Shepherd has compromised itself. Putting a disclaimer is a bit like eating eggs and putting out a disclaimer against grinding male chicks alive. I for one am very disappointed that they did this.</p>
<p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> I see a big problem here. In…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-04-29:4715978:Comment:933192012-04-29T02:33:40.168ZKerry Bakerhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/KerryBaker
<p>I see a big problem here. In attending a function sponsored by Dow, the Dow company comes out of it being regarded as responsible because they have had the tacit approval of well known animal rights activist. It is if you like similar to the RSPCA allowing their logo to be put on cage eggs in supermarkets, which gives consumers the impression that because they have their stamp of approval, no cruelty occurs.</p>
<p>It is unfortunately a political issue. Where a name is associated with…</p>
<p>I see a big problem here. In attending a function sponsored by Dow, the Dow company comes out of it being regarded as responsible because they have had the tacit approval of well known animal rights activist. It is if you like similar to the RSPCA allowing their logo to be put on cage eggs in supermarkets, which gives consumers the impression that because they have their stamp of approval, no cruelty occurs.</p>
<p>It is unfortunately a political issue. Where a name is associated with something, it does send a message to the broader, less informed population, that makes them feel more comfortable about not changing their consumer habits. Yes we all need materials to work with, and we can only try to locate those that we think don't involve abuse of animals. I think Sea Shepherd in this instance demonstrated very poor judgement, even tough I understand why they may have decided to do so. Dow has benefited here by appearing to support animal rights activists, Sea Shepherd has compromised itself. Putting a disclaimer is a bit like eating eggs and putting out a disclaimer against grinding male chicks alive. I for one am very disappointed that they did this.</p>
<p></p>