Ellen DeGeneres talks about backyard chickens - Animal Rights Zone2024-03-29T15:20:59Zhttp://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A121014&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOh well, Wendy, you're made s…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-23:4715978:Comment:1210142012-12-23T05:44:00.184ZTim Gierhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/TimGier
<p>Oh well, Wendy, you're made some crazy leaps from what I've said to what you're concluding, so that's kinda fun, huh? You may notice that I said nothing about sentience in relation to chickens, and you should of course realize that unfertilized eggs aren't the sort of things that could be sentient, so I don't know where your comments about someone eating chickens is coming from. Likewise, your comments about women and rape is just silly, in the context of this post, so thanks for that, a…</p>
<p>Oh well, Wendy, you're made some crazy leaps from what I've said to what you're concluding, so that's kinda fun, huh? You may notice that I said nothing about sentience in relation to chickens, and you should of course realize that unfertilized eggs aren't the sort of things that could be sentient, so I don't know where your comments about someone eating chickens is coming from. Likewise, your comments about women and rape is just silly, in the context of this post, so thanks for that, a little silliness does lighten the day.<br/><br/>It may come as a surprise to you, but it's not the case that animals' lives are sacred, any more than yours or mine is, and I take it as given that there are possible circumstances in which the taking of a life in order to prevent some greater wrongful harm would be appropriate. People who see complexities of moral reasoning in absolutist terms, as black or white, haven't done very much actual reasoning, moral or otherwise, in my estimation, so I am not terribly surprised that you don't understand what I say.<br/> <br/> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?id=4715978%3ATopic%3A118619&page=2#4715978Comment120928"><div><p>Oh. Well, I don't think women are capable of informed consent, either. Mostly when they say "no," they mean "yes," so after careful consideration, rape is not really rape, because women don't mean what they say.</p>
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<p>Does no one understand what Carol Adams was saying about the appropriating of words in order to water down and silence those who are trying to change?</p>
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<p>I am really disappointed in this whole conversation. Just as Tim suggested on FB that vivisection to save humans might in some circumstances, now he suggests here that it doesn't matter whether an individual is sentient; if I decide after careful consideration that a chicken is not sentient, and therefore eating her is OK I can call myself vegan and it's the vegans' problems? What the hell? I think it's more like it's the chickens' problems, and those are not minor problems.</p>
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<p>I don't why this is called animal rights zone. The moderators of this community seem less concerned with animals than with placating a public that may not look favorably upon us because we -- oh, make waves, contradict celebrities, may be a bit hardass about somethings -- like exploiting animals for eggs?</p>
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<p>Unbelievable.</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Tim Gier said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A120296&xg_source=msg_com_forum#4715978Comment120641"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>What I think people are confused about is who gets to decide when a person can call themselves vegan. I also think people are confused with respect to thinking that, just in case a person call themselves vegan, they automatically agree to subject themselves to the judgment of all the self-appointed "keepers of the vegan truth". What nonsense.</p>
<p>Let's suppose that, after careful consideration of all the latest information available, I come to the conclusion that bees are not sentient. If I came to that conclusion with the best of intentions, then I could eat food that contained honey with a clear conscience. I could call myself vegan. If other people thought I was not worthy of the label, that would be their problem, not mine. So, perhaps Ellen thinks that being vegan, as far as eggs are concerned, means not getting eggs from commercial suppliers, and not being a part of the system that does so much wrong to chickens. If she is well-informed and has good intentions, then she can call herself vegan. It should make no difference to her what other vegans think. It makes no difference to me.</p>
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</blockquote> As far as I know there is no…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-23:4715978:Comment:1210122012-12-23T02:15:57.908ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>As far as I know there is no article claiming who the eggs are for, Tharan. My position is simply that we don't know who the eggs are for, and that assuming they are for Ellen to consume herself, and making outrageous claims such as "Finally, Ellen DeGeneres has admitted to not being vegan and she never was" is an ugly and uncharitable way to treat other individuals. Those claims were made on Facebook (not here). <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Thäran sXeVegan said:…</cite></p>
<p>As far as I know there is no article claiming who the eggs are for, Tharan. My position is simply that we don't know who the eggs are for, and that assuming they are for Ellen to consume herself, and making outrageous claims such as "Finally, Ellen DeGeneres has admitted to not being vegan and she never was" is an ugly and uncharitable way to treat other individuals. Those claims were made on Facebook (not here). <br/> <br/> <cite>Thäran sXeVegan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?id=4715978%3ATopic%3A118619&page=2#4715978Comment119857"><div><p>Carolyn, I missed the article or reference where Ellen might have said it's for her old mother, I heard on facebook that the eggs were for Portia, again with no article or video. I've only watched the one above and been on her site to look for anything else. I similarly made the assumption it's for her employees.<br/><br/>All animals being equal and bearing in mind that the hens have been de-beaked and thus forced to lay their eggs and remain unable to help themselves to it, and have a shortened lifespan. 'Force' is not the right technical word but persuasion with arguments doesn't always work with people and even ex-vegans, and trying to have a 'my kitchen is vegan' rule would be seen as forcing, certainly my mum would interpret it this way although she's an ethical vegetarian (if there is such a thing). I personally wish laws would change and that flesh and milk too would not be seen as commodities. Many would see that as vegans forcing their ways but hopefully AR vegans do not.</p>
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</blockquote> We get our dog and cat food f…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-23:4715978:Comment:1206532012-12-23T01:49:05.023ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>We get our dog and cat food from a local producer. I don't eat it though. <br/><br/>A little charity toward others is something that's sadly missing in the vegan community at times, and that's a real shame. </p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz said:</cite></p>
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<p><em>I am taking Ellen's comment to mean exactly what she said: "we get our eggs from..." the neighbors. Not for my dogs, for my mom, for friends, but "we get our eggs..."</em> <br/> <br/> <cite><br/></cite></p>
<p>We get our dog and cat food from a local producer. I don't eat it though. <br/><br/>A little charity toward others is something that's sadly missing in the vegan community at times, and that's a real shame. </p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz said:</cite></p>
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<p><em>I am taking Ellen's comment to mean exactly what she said: "we get our eggs from..." the neighbors. Not for my dogs, for my mom, for friends, but "we get our eggs..."</em> <br/> <br/> <cite><br/></cite></p> What I think people are confu…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-21:4715978:Comment:1206412012-12-21T01:57:31.302ZTim Gierhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/TimGier
<p>What I think people are confused about is who gets to decide when a person can call themselves vegan. I also think people are confused with respect to thinking that, just in case a person call themselves vegan, they automatically agree to subject themselves to the judgment of all the self-appointed "keepers of the vegan truth". What nonsense.</p>
<p>Let's suppose that, after careful consideration of all the latest information available, I come to the conclusion that bees are not sentient. If…</p>
<p>What I think people are confused about is who gets to decide when a person can call themselves vegan. I also think people are confused with respect to thinking that, just in case a person call themselves vegan, they automatically agree to subject themselves to the judgment of all the self-appointed "keepers of the vegan truth". What nonsense.</p>
<p>Let's suppose that, after careful consideration of all the latest information available, I come to the conclusion that bees are not sentient. If I came to that conclusion with the best of intentions, then I could eat food that contained honey with a clear conscience. I could call myself vegan. If other people thought I was not worthy of the label, that would be their problem, not mine. So, perhaps Ellen thinks that being vegan, as far as eggs are concerned, means not getting eggs from commercial suppliers, and not being a part of the system that does so much wrong to chickens. If she is well-informed and has good intentions, then she can call herself vegan. It should make no difference to her what other vegans think. It makes no difference to me.</p> It's interesting that you see…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-21:4715978:Comment:1209212012-12-21T01:20:11.492ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>It's interesting that you seem to be suggesting that I shouldn't take Michael's statement to actually mean what he said, but we should all take Ellen's statement to mean exactly what she said, despite the fact that she didn't actually say what you are ascribing to her. <br></br><br></br>That seems very confusing, and unfair to me.<br></br><br></br>I don't recall mentioning driving a car, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting there either. <br></br> </p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz…</cite></p>
<p>It's interesting that you seem to be suggesting that I shouldn't take Michael's statement to actually mean what he said, but we should all take Ellen's statement to mean exactly what she said, despite the fact that she didn't actually say what you are ascribing to her. <br/><br/>That seems very confusing, and unfair to me.<br/><br/>I don't recall mentioning driving a car, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting there either. <br/> </p>
<p><br/> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A120296&xg_source=activity#4715978Comment120160"><div><p>Carolyn said: Hi <em>Michael, </em><br/><em>No-one is 100% vegan, and Ellen didn't say she eats eggs. What she actually said can be seen in the original post in this thread that Tim posted.</em></p>
<p>For goodness' sake, allow a little hyperbole. It is one thing to drive a car and another to "get" eggs, and I think anyone could reasonably expect someone who "get[s] our eggs" from "happy" hens consumes those eggs. I think it's implied in her statement. If I got eggs to feed my cats, if I were interviewed somewhere about it, I would say, "I get some eggs on occasion from Goat Mountain Ranch sanctuary to feed my cats, as long as the chickens have had their fill." I mean, I would make a point of announcing that the eggs were not for my consumption.</p>
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</blockquote> I did not claim that Ellen ge…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-21:4715978:Comment:1208462012-12-21T01:14:57.707ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>I did not claim that Ellen gets the eggs for her mother, I said that it is a very real possibility that, considering her non-vegan mother and her dogs live with Ellen, she may be getting the eggs for any of those individuals. That is why I said, in the comment you have replied to here: <br></br><br></br><em>"Veronique, if Ellen gets eggs for her non-vegan mother, and I think we can assume there is a likelihood of that occurring"</em><br></br><br></br><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz…</cite></p>
<p>I did not claim that Ellen gets the eggs for her mother, I said that it is a very real possibility that, considering her non-vegan mother and her dogs live with Ellen, she may be getting the eggs for any of those individuals. That is why I said, in the comment you have replied to here: <br/><br/><em>"Veronique, if Ellen gets eggs for her non-vegan mother, and I think we can assume there is a likelihood of that occurring"</em><br/><br/><br/> <br/> <cite>Wendy Kobylarz said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens?commentId=4715978%3AComment%3A120296&xg_source=activity#4715978Comment120230"><p>Where did she say she gets eggs for her mother?<br/>As well, she did not say it to the audience, who will now assume that she eats the eggs herself.</p>
<p>And... if my non-vegan sister asked me to pick up a hamburger, a gallon of milk or a carton of eggs for her, I'd say, "I love you, but no way."<cite><br/></cite></p>
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</blockquote> I thought it was bad enough b…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-20:4715978:Comment:1202962012-12-20T22:28:22.841ZThäran sXeVeganhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/sXeVegan
<p>I thought it was bad enough but the only thing she did specify in the above video is that she wants her own hens for her to get eggs. If one doesn't know she mis-uses the word vegan (I didn't, I only knew of the Go Vegan With Ellen programme on her site, I don't watch Ellen and learned a lot during the discussions around this.) she owes an explanation to the public and other vegans should stop condoning her. Again, we all can comfortably assume Ellen has the means to not eat eggs, I have…</p>
<p>I thought it was bad enough but the only thing she did specify in the above video is that she wants her own hens for her to get eggs. If one doesn't know she mis-uses the word vegan (I didn't, I only knew of the Go Vegan With Ellen programme on her site, I don't watch Ellen and learned a lot during the discussions around this.) she owes an explanation to the public and other vegans should stop condoning her. Again, we all can comfortably assume Ellen has the means to not eat eggs, I have friends on welfare in the same country as her who manage to be vegan i.e. not eat/get eggs. If they had to to survive, it would be no different to a freegan who had to accept eggs from a neighbour. Ellen, Portia and her mother are far from such a situation.<br/><br/>Veganism is the least harm one can do, some harms are perfectly avoidable and it's not as if we're saying she should turn her whole neighbourhood vegan magically because she's famous and so on. I hope to never buy or make non-vegan food for anyone. An acquaintance ordered vegan without us discussing anything recently when we were eating out at a non-vegan place, simply to respect my values. I can't imagine friends asking if they can eat non-vegan in my house, family can be more difficult and especially when I depend on them financially. My mum kindly pays for my rent and food, and did even during her vegan stay that I mentioned earlier, so I use 'my house' loosely above.</p> Carolyn, I missed the article…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-18:4715978:Comment:1198572012-12-18T22:09:38.990ZThäran sXeVeganhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/sXeVegan
<p>Carolyn, I missed the article or reference where Ellen might have said it's for her old mother, I heard on facebook that the eggs were for Portia, again with no article or video. I've only watched the one above and been on her site to look for anything else. I similarly made the assumption it's for her employees.<br></br><br></br>All animals being equal and bearing in mind that the hens have been de-beaked and thus forced to lay their eggs and remain unable to help themselves to it, and have a…</p>
<p>Carolyn, I missed the article or reference where Ellen might have said it's for her old mother, I heard on facebook that the eggs were for Portia, again with no article or video. I've only watched the one above and been on her site to look for anything else. I similarly made the assumption it's for her employees.<br/><br/>All animals being equal and bearing in mind that the hens have been de-beaked and thus forced to lay their eggs and remain unable to help themselves to it, and have a shortened lifespan. 'Force' is not the right technical word but persuasion with arguments doesn't always work with people and even ex-vegans, and trying to have a 'my kitchen is vegan' rule would be seen as forcing, certainly my mum would interpret it this way although she's an ethical vegetarian (if there is such a thing). I personally wish laws would change and that flesh and milk too would not be seen as commodities. Many would see that as vegans forcing their ways but hopefully AR vegans do not.</p> I'm not sure what "assumption…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-18:4715978:Comment:1197262012-12-18T01:06:03.588ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>I'm not sure what "assumptions" those defending Ellen are making, so I can't comment on that. But I think to suggest that Ellen (or anyone) should force an 80-ish year old woman to change their life in order to fit in with other family members is quite unfair. As Uptight Primate noted, "forcing" someone to make the changes we hope they'll make is almost always counter-productive, at best. <br></br><br></br>Hens do enjoy, and need, the nutrients from their eggs, and I think it's very important they…</p>
<p>I'm not sure what "assumptions" those defending Ellen are making, so I can't comment on that. But I think to suggest that Ellen (or anyone) should force an 80-ish year old woman to change their life in order to fit in with other family members is quite unfair. As Uptight Primate noted, "forcing" someone to make the changes we hope they'll make is almost always counter-productive, at best. <br/><br/>Hens do enjoy, and need, the nutrients from their eggs, and I think it's very important they be able to access their eggs, I agree with that. </p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Thäran sXeVegan said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/ellen-degeneres-talks-about-backyard-chickens#4715978Comment119716"><div><p>We're not really making assumptions about her income and access to information in criticising her, but many are making assumptions to defend her. I wonder what assumptions her carnist fans are making, she didn't say she wants to take in rescued hens, she said she also wants a coop one day to get eggs like she does. In Barbara's scenario, she also could force her mother to be vegan (potentially hear her whine a lot but one wonders if her mood will really decline if we go by the arachidonic acid theories - see nutritionfacts.org ) and possibly better her health and lifespan. I forced my mother to go vegan when she stayed with me a few weeks, it helped temporarily to inform her but she's no longer vegan. If it were for Ellen's employees say, she could say she has a vegan kichen if she's calling herself a vegan (my definition is to try one's best not to harm, is she doing that?)<br/><br/> I'm poor, in/from 3rd world and when I didn't have internet or access to a vegan community, I used to imagine it might be fine to eat eggs of rescued chickens. I now know that because the hens have been de-beaked they can't break their infertile eggs themselves, they otherwise would and would help themselves to it - like they happily do when the eggs are broken for them. Laying depletes them of calcium and shortens their lifespan, the kindest method of feeding them calcium is to feed their own eggs to them (I imagine the harvesting of extra feed otherwise kills other beings etc.). <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMKNOcy5cM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMKNOcy5cM</a> Peaceful prairie video of that in action.</p>
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</blockquote> Hi Michael, No-one is 100% ve…tag:arzone.ning.com,2012-12-18:4715978:Comment:1197252012-12-18T00:57:03.880ZCarolyn Baileyhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/CarolynBailey
<p>Hi Michael, <br/><br/>No-one is 100% vegan, and Ellen didn't say she eats eggs. What she actually said can be seen in the original post in this thread that Tim posted. </p>
<p>Hi Michael, <br/><br/>No-one is 100% vegan, and Ellen didn't say she eats eggs. What she actually said can be seen in the original post in this thread that Tim posted. </p>