Is "unethical veganism" growing and global trend? - Animal Rights Zone2024-03-29T15:46:30Zhttp://arzone.ning.com/forum/topics/is-unethical-veganism-growing-and-global-trend?feed=yes&xn_auth=noI have to echo what you are s…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-16:4715978:Comment:692272011-10-16T04:46:24.762ZJeannie Habbalhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/JeannieHabbal
<p>I have to echo what you are saying Tim. This is my position as well. Sure, how perfect it would be if everyone goes about being vegan for the same , humane,moral, ethical, virtuous reasons. However, that would be perfection in an imperfect world and therefore, in my opinion, impossible to achieve. Having said that....I am always happy to hear or see when another person stops eating living beings for what ever reason they choose. I don't believe cruelty to animals will be stopped simply by…</p>
<p>I have to echo what you are saying Tim. This is my position as well. Sure, how perfect it would be if everyone goes about being vegan for the same , humane,moral, ethical, virtuous reasons. However, that would be perfection in an imperfect world and therefore, in my opinion, impossible to achieve. Having said that....I am always happy to hear or see when another person stops eating living beings for what ever reason they choose. I don't believe cruelty to animals will be stopped simply by some people not eating them. I believe that more dents will be made by more people being more out-spoken and writing to make their voices be heard. Writing to television sponsors, writing to congresspeople(Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich is vegan I don't know how he is using his post to spread the word), news stations, spreading the thoughts, feelings, and more importantly educating the masses about what is really going on when people choose to eat any living being. Also, educating people to the fact that it is not just eating meat, but not buying products that use animals for testing, learning all the "hidden, and disguised names" for animal products in foods, lotions and just about any product sold on the market. Many people, for example, are not aware that Armor Thyroid (a thyroid medication) is made with pork products. That the flu vaccine is made with eggs, and there are countless examples of these things going on to clueless people all around the world. We are surrounded by things that are used and/or consumed on a daily basis by those that have no clue they are. It is about starting the education early, with our children. Teaching children that it is indeed unethical and inhumane to eat any living things. That the choices we make with what we consume and/or use besides causing us many devastating health issues, like cancers, Alzheimer's (which is on the rise), and many, many others,... causes animals to suffer in ways no living being should. Most children I know of don't even realize that the hamburger, steak, shrimp, fish, chicken, etc.. they are eating are actual animals that live, breathe and feel as we do. They see commercials for Meat items and the messages are "yum it tastes good"..."does a body good". "need animal protein to grow healthy and strong". "all part of the food chain", I could go on and on and on...</p>
<p> How about having commercials for non meat items and making them look as appealing so that children ask for those products instead? How about changing how schools feed children? From an early age if children are taught about ethical treatment of animals and what to eat to get all that is needed to be healthy and strong and live full happy lives.</p>
<p>I believe the fact is that the people that control, distribute meat and control the advertising and mass marketing are more powerful than most governments. What happens when I turn on the food channel or any cooking show? 95% of all the foods that they cook involve some kind of meat products. They are sponsored by the meat industry.How about just about any program on television? How many meat and meat derived products are advertised?</p>
<p> Where are the people that control the vegan market? Why aren't there those people sponsoring cooking shows, television shows, sports events, naming stadiums, and creating commercials and public service announcements? </p>
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<p>In summary, I can't agree that "unethical veganisim is a growing and global trend. When someone chooses to not eat meat for what ever their rationale happens to be that is a good thing and hopefully at some point the desire for more education into their choices will follow. We all get to this path in our own way and our own time. Some people have been vegan since very young and others at various ages.. some go in and out for a while and then back. It is all okay. I am always so happy when I meet a vegan, I don't question their motives. What I do believe is that unethical treatment is here to stay and is not a trend but a fact of life that will never change as long as people don't go at it from the right angle. That angle is simply education with facts.</p>
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<p>I apologize for the lengthy post...believe me, I could have kept going. ;-D</p>
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<p> </p> Amen, Tim. I'll agree 105% on…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-06:4715978:Comment:682762011-10-06T18:17:45.295ZLisa Vhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/LisaViger
Amen, Tim. I'll agree 105% on that as well ... possibly 110%. :)
Amen, Tim. I'll agree 105% on that as well ... possibly 110%. :) 105% on that one, Tim!tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-05:4715978:Comment:684512011-10-05T19:09:24.780ZMaynard S. Clarkhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/MaynardSClark
105% on that one, Tim!
105% on that one, Tim! When a person decides that th…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-05:4715978:Comment:681702011-10-05T17:33:05.713ZTim Gierhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/TimGier
When a person decides that they are able to live without participating in the ongoing exploitation of others, in whatever way they decide to do that and for whatever reasons they so decide, it is better than if they didn't so decide. That is, if John Doe opts out of eating "meat" out of concern for his health tomorrow, and sticks with that decision for the rest of his life, it will be better, all things considered, than if he didn't. Perhaps it will not be the best decision John might reach, on…
When a person decides that they are able to live without participating in the ongoing exploitation of others, in whatever way they decide to do that and for whatever reasons they so decide, it is better than if they didn't so decide. That is, if John Doe opts out of eating "meat" out of concern for his health tomorrow, and sticks with that decision for the rest of his life, it will be better, all things considered, than if he didn't. Perhaps it will not be the best decision John might reach, on some absolute terms, but it is undeniable, I think, that it would be better than no such decision at all. Hi Maynard, if I may take the…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-05:4715978:Comment:683572011-10-05T11:00:24.855ZBilly Lhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/BillyLovci
<p>Hi Maynard, if I may take the discussion off-topic for a moment, I'm curious about the evolution of your calling, or next phase if there was one. I ask as a 40 year old, long time vegetarian gone vegan earlier this year (2011).</p>
<p>Hi Maynard, if I may take the discussion off-topic for a moment, I'm curious about the evolution of your calling, or next phase if there was one. I ask as a 40 year old, long time vegetarian gone vegan earlier this year (2011).</p> I'll tolerate it, but you are…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-05:4715978:Comment:683562011-10-05T10:42:38.481ZBilly Lhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/BillyLovci
I'll tolerate it, but you are right Maynard, I find it difficult to accept that people keep quiet about the reason for their choice, especially when there are so many compelling facts that even the complete newcomer can easily grasp; such as any one or two put very straightforwardly from your motivation list.
I'll tolerate it, but you are right Maynard, I find it difficult to accept that people keep quiet about the reason for their choice, especially when there are so many compelling facts that even the complete newcomer can easily grasp; such as any one or two put very straightforwardly from your motivation list. I think it's GREAT that vegan…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-04:4715978:Comment:683552011-10-04T22:50:24.760ZMaynard S. Clarkhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/MaynardSClark
<p>I think it's GREAT that vegans get individual BENEFIT from their being vegan, as we can all, to some extent, enjoy a 'distributed benefit' of others' being vegan (as do some nonhumans - perhaps all nonhumans become of the ecological downsides averted).<br></br><br></br>I do WISH that others would not misrepresent the rightfulness of veganism 'in itself' - like Kant's 'ding-an-sich' (think in itself), I think there is a 'veganism-in-itself' (without all the customizing, the individual trappings). We…</p>
<p>I think it's GREAT that vegans get individual BENEFIT from their being vegan, as we can all, to some extent, enjoy a 'distributed benefit' of others' being vegan (as do some nonhumans - perhaps all nonhumans become of the ecological downsides averted).<br/><br/>I do WISH that others would not misrepresent the rightfulness of veganism 'in itself' - like Kant's 'ding-an-sich' (think in itself), I think there is a 'veganism-in-itself' (without all the customizing, the individual trappings). We or others can dispute this, but there's something about NOT insisting that your customized FORM of being vegan become mandatory for everyone else.</p>
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<p>Most of us accept that position when we ACCEPT some Adventist's veganism as not being OUR veganism, but some AR advocates cannot accept that not all dietary vegans are outspoken ADVOCATES for every POSSIBLE AR intervention.</p> There's another side to vegan…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-04:4715978:Comment:681662011-10-04T22:33:17.504ZBilly Lhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/BillyLovci
<p>There's another side to veganism I've also noticed, which I don't wish to associate with either, and that's "purity policing" - judging people's actions/motivation as not living up to an ideal. I hope my snobbery hasn't crossed that line! :)</p>
<p>If someone is vegan because they like to have a good workout and be fit, then so be it. I'd prefer some rescue/foster/adoption, outreach, and antispeciesist discourse to go along with it, but it's only that; my preference.</p>
<p>There's another side to veganism I've also noticed, which I don't wish to associate with either, and that's "purity policing" - judging people's actions/motivation as not living up to an ideal. I hope my snobbery hasn't crossed that line! :)</p>
<p>If someone is vegan because they like to have a good workout and be fit, then so be it. I'd prefer some rescue/foster/adoption, outreach, and antispeciesist discourse to go along with it, but it's only that; my preference.</p> Now THAT I could call 'unethi…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-04:4715978:Comment:684462011-10-04T15:43:14.648ZMaynard S. Clarkhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/MaynardSClark
<p>Now THAT I could call 'unethical veganism' or non-ethical veganism.</p>
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<p>Ages ago (about 35, to be precise), when I first became vegetarian, then vegan, I found myself called upon to defend the 'choice' - which I did by first defining motivations:</p>
<ul>
<li>Economic Conditions (scarcity - we don't have much and we need to 'make do' with what we have, or abundance - we 'have vegan food' - meaning processed foods we want)</li>
<li>Economic Prudence (Earth cannot sustain 7 billion…</li>
</ul>
<p>Now THAT I could call 'unethical veganism' or non-ethical veganism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ages ago (about 35, to be precise), when I first became vegetarian, then vegan, I found myself called upon to defend the 'choice' - which I did by first defining motivations:</p>
<ul>
<li>Economic Conditions (scarcity - we don't have much and we need to 'make do' with what we have, or abundance - we 'have vegan food' - meaning processed foods we want)</li>
<li>Economic Prudence (Earth cannot sustain 7 billion humans, and growing, on the MAD diets of the West)</li>
<li>Environmental</li>
<li>Ethical (towards both nonhumans - wrong to kill them for food; AND humans - the meat industry is not how humans ought to be making a living, for a very long list of reasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.)</li>
<li>Personal Health</li>
<li>Public Health</li>
<li>Religious or Spiritual (both aspiring spirituality and as a result of social teachings)</li>
<li>Cultural Habit (both long-term multigenerational culture and short-term fads)</li>
</ul>
<p>I worry about the short-term fads for a variety of reasons, one of which is its capacity to misrepresent vegan values (and thus veganism) to the public AND to those who practice short-term fad veganism (STFV). Now, I'm happy for any reduction, short-term OR long-term, in the market 'demand' for inflicting suffering on others. I do believe, however, that sanctions against harming others (beyond self-protection) ought to be very firm and not matters of 'malice or moment'.<br/><br/>Nonetheless, I think that the REASONS for going vegan (or even vegetarian) can be differentiated and discussed in rational and distinct manners among civil and informed persons. Given that, the proportion of the 7 billion strong human population that qualifies with sufficient advantage and level-headedness for that discussion is relatively small; I think that we need to allow others to encourage shifts towards plant-based diets for all kinds of reasons; in some cases, this is NOT a total win, as with those who opt for irrational lifestyles bonded with vegan diets. The vegan diet is a win; the irrational lifestyles are NOT a win for them, for others, for society, for animals, nor for the future.</p> I've noticed in the USA (SF B…tag:arzone.ning.com,2011-10-04:4715978:Comment:684442011-10-04T15:05:16.716ZBilly Lhttp://arzone.ning.com/profile/BillyLovci
<p>I've noticed in the USA (SF Bay Area geographically as well as online) that there are vegans that seem to equate veganism mostly with hipster subculture and cuisine. I've had that same feeling that theory, outreach/education, philosophy/morality, etc. is never discussed by these type of folks, at least not that I have ever seen. They seem concerned mainly with pop culture aesthetics and ironic humor.</p>
<p>I avoid them like I do welfare groups. I just feel like there is not much that we…</p>
<p>I've noticed in the USA (SF Bay Area geographically as well as online) that there are vegans that seem to equate veganism mostly with hipster subculture and cuisine. I've had that same feeling that theory, outreach/education, philosophy/morality, etc. is never discussed by these type of folks, at least not that I have ever seen. They seem concerned mainly with pop culture aesthetics and ironic humor.</p>
<p>I avoid them like I do welfare groups. I just feel like there is not much that we have in common other than diet. Another aspect that bothers me about these certain types of vegans is the privileged assumptions. It takes money, time, specific aesthetic choices, as well as an unwillingness to engage with ordinary people (outgroup), to be able to fit in with this particular subculture.</p>
<p>There are so many thoughtful folks that do take theory and outreach seriously, so I'd rather spend time exchanging ideas with them. My goal for the near future is developing my blog to include vegan recipes made by shopping at Walmart (mainly inspired by <a href="http://melomeals.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://melomeals.blogspot.com/</a> - vegan meals for $3.33 a day). I have many many problems with that corporation, but it's also where the majority of everyday people shop, since there is one in virtually every US city.</p>