Transcript of Bob Linden's ARZone Guest Chat ~ 23/24 October 2010

[Carolyn Bailey]

Transcript of Bob Linden’s ARZone Guest Chat

23 October 2010 at:

3pm US Pacific Time

6pm US Eastern Time

11pm UK Time

And

24 October 2010 at:

8am Australian Eastern Standard Time 

 

 

Carolyn Bailey:

ARZone would like to welcome Bob LInden as today’s chat guest. Bob Linden, host of GO VEGAN Radio, is a New York City native and graduate of Queens College of the City University of New York. Bob is a professional broadcaster and animal advocate.

 

Bob’s radio career is extensive, and includes such achievements as the highest ratings ever at 98.1 KIFM in San Diego. During his extensive career at various broadcast radio networks, Bob geared stations toward participation in community service particularly with regard to advancing animal and environmental causes. Despite his undeniable success in creating economically and commercially successful radio programming, Bob became increasingly conflicted about his role in contributing to industries that profit from the sale of animal products. These conflicts ultimately resulted in Bob's creation of his own talk radio show.

 

GO VEGAN Radio is a one hour talk radio programme. GO VEGAN Radio airs in the US on terrestrial radio via Clear Channel networks on Green 960 AM in San Francisco and K-TALK 1150 AM in Los Angeles, every Sunday between 5pm - 6pm ET. The show is also accessible via download, live-stream and free podcast. GO VEGAN Radio has been the subject of a full-page article written by Pulitzer-Prize winning LA Times media critic Howard Rosenberg and has been featured as Radio Show of the Week in the LA Daily News.

 

Bob is also a successful events organiser and professional promoter. Bob played a major role in developing and promoting Vegan Earth Day Events, San Diego Fall-Fest and Worldfest-LA, for which he also emceed. He has served as Media Coordinator for F.A.R.M. (the Farm Animal Rights Movement) and the Great American Meatout. Bob has been a self-professed vegan for more than 25 years.

 

Would you please join with me in welcoming Bob to ARZone today?

 

Welcome, Bob!

Tim Gier:

Hi Bob, welcome!

 

Roger Yates:

hi Bob

 

Will

hello bob

 

Mangus O’Shales:

Hello Bob

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Welcome!

 

Ben Hornby:

Hi Bob!

 

Sky

hi!

 

Brooke Cameron:

Hi Bob!

 

Bob Linden:

Thank you all...great to be here with you

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Before we begin, I’d like to encourage participation in Bob’s chat from all members. If you wish to follow-up on one of Bob’s responses, please PM me so we may involve all members in a way which also allows Bob time to respond without interruption.

 

Alternatively, feel free to wait until the open session when all members will be invited to engage Bob.

 

I’d now like to ask Ben Hornby to ask Bob his first question for today. Go ahead, Ben.

 

Ben Hornby:
Could you please explain what the early days of your radio programme were like for you, Bob. What was your inspiration to start a “Go Vegan” radio show and what difficulties did you face in those early days?

 

Bob Linden:
Hi Ben – For many years I was a professional broadcaster and animal rights activist, often resulting in conflict (as in – what happens when a radio station where I work accepts fur advertising). After the consolidation of the radio industry in the US, there were fewer creative job options for me as a Program Director, so animal rights took over my life, including organizing vegan festivals.

When I was starting WorldFest in Los Angeles in 2000, I promoted the event on various stations in Southern California, including KRLA where a producer there – Suzanne Lishon, suggested to me that with my background in animal rights and broadcasting, I should marry the two in a weekly broadcast, and I should pursue some of the time available on that station.

The station allowed me a couple of weeks to pursue advertising to cover the cost of the airtime, and I was successful in securing it. I had always imagined that I would create some kind of TV infomercial –

“This is cows’ milk. Don’t drink it. This is soy milk. Drink it.” Instead, I would now translate my vegan and animal rights advocacy to radio, a medium with which I was very familiar. I also realized there had never been a vegan animal rights program on the air. What would it sound like? Anyhow, gathered advertising, thought it would last a week, going on ten years!

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks so much, Bob. Now Rog would like to ask his question, go ahead, Rog

 

Roger Yates:
Hi Bob. Some people may be surprised by your liberal attitude to the use of “mock meats” and non-dairy cheeses, etc., especially those who worry about “junk food veganism.” I’m with you on this, although I do not use meat analogues much – but what do people say against the use of these products?

 

Bob Linden:
Hi Roger – To me, “meat” is the mockery - of all things good, healthy, sustainable, and moral. Even the word itself is too innocent, too accepted as “food”. Since the real food in this world – fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, seeds, legumes – can be prepared in textures and flavorings imitated by (non)”foods” derived from body parts and body secretions, “meat” is the mock “food”. A non-GMO soy hot dog or a nut burger has got to be infinitely better than corpse dogs and cadaver burgers, , and the same would go for vegan cheese. It doesn’t get more deadly than animal protein, and the dairy protein is the carcinogen t6o which Americans are most exposed. Insulin Growth Factor in dairy grows human breast and prostate tumors big and fast And dairy is tainted with growth hormones and antibiotics. Could any vegan cheese be any worse?

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks for that Bob... next Q comes from Tim Gier - go Tim.

 

Tim Gier:

As a follow-up to the last question, considering that many of the vegan products on the market are produced by the same agribusinesses that profit from the sale of animal products, it would seem that those
companies have an interest in keeping the price of vegans products high. These companies know that many vegans (at least those in the US & other wealthy Western countries) will pay dearly for vegan food, while
they also…know that the high prices of vegan food will dissuade the vast majority of people from ever buying them. If this is correct, are vegans making a mistake by buying vegan food from companies whose main business isn't vegan at all and when, in fact, vegan support of high priced vegan food may increase the sales of lower priced non-vegan alternatives?

 

Bob Linden:

Hi Tim - It has always been distressing to me when a vegan company is bought by one engaged in animal exploitation. I no longer buy products from Lightlife since it’s purchase by ConAgra. I avoid Silk, not only
because of its use of (primate-habitat–destroying) palm oil, but because it is owned by Dean “foods”, the largest dairy.

 

What’s strange about it though (palm oil aside), is that because it is the largest dairy, Silk is on the shelf of every little drug store in Anytown, USA, introducing people to soymilk. What an imperfect world! Then, I keep thinking – what if these evil companies’ vegan food lines grow so much – they would have to shift production and discontinue their animal products?

 

Roger Yates:
Thanks Bob. The next question is from Jason Nightingale who cannot make it for the chat – so Carolyn Bailey will ask his question.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks for that, Roger.

Hey Bob, I’ve noticed a pattern of people displaying a lack of understanding of the importance in vegan advocacy of vegan foods and vegan cooking. I understand your radio show includes vegan cooking and recipes, do you feel this is an important avenue in vegan advocacy? If so, why?

 

Bob Linden:
Hi Jason – My life’s mission is to convince as many people as possible to GO VEGAN as soon as possible, by presenting the most compelling information regarding the alleviation of the suffering and murder of innocent animals, improving human health and social conditions, achieving environmental sustainability, etc., spaghetti with marinara sauce, hummus, soups, salads, smoothies, and international cuisine from around the world that is vegan, delicious, and nutritious.

In many parts of the world, pre-vegans are visiting vegan restaurants and saying “I can eat like this”. And isn’t it the obligation of every parent to explore vegan cuisine as the alternative to condemning his or her child to heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, obesity, osteoporosis, and premature death?

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks again, Bob. Tammy McLeod has a question for you next, which I'll ask on her behalf.

Bob, you've been vegan for 25 years. How challenging was it being vegan back then?

 

Bob Linden:

After handling and cooking a chicken’s body one night while attending Queens College
in New York forever ago, I decided I couldn’t eat animals anymore and have them tortured and killed for my consumption. I was the first “vegetarian” I knew, and had to think and learn my way through the process of eliminating sea creatures after first rationalizing that maybe the oceans are here to feed us and then picturing a fish gasping and suffocating; and then there was realizing how harmful “harmless” cows’ milk, cheese, and eggs are.

So, for me, in the beginning, it was a lot of rice and beans and vegetables for me, which wasn’t so bad. My discovery of tofu was like a hallelujah celebration. I liked early finds like Ice Bean as an ice cream substitute. I didn’t really like Soymage as a cheese substitute, but I got some about every 6 months, hoping for an improvement. It was nothing like the foods available today. Today, it’s learn about going vegan, go vegan today!

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks for sharing that with us, Bob. Barbara DeGrande would like to address you now, all yours, Barbara.

 

Barbara De Grande:
What form of activism have you found to be most effective and how do you weigh that effectiveness?

 

Bob Linden:
I believe our time is best spent promoting veganism and exposing the horrors of animal abuse from farms to laboratories to circuses – to whatever. I want to reach the most people possible, as quickly as possible,

so animal liberation media infiltration is what I think is best. Everybody start a radio show, a TV show, a cartoon, a movie – or take your megaphone to the streets!

 

Roger Yates:
Thanks Bob
Next up is Carolyn

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, Roger. Hi Bob, could you tell me how your radio programme is funded please?

 

Bob Linden:
I have to purchase airtime every week. It’s not like when I was a Program Director and I would run a show like mine as a public service. So I fund my show through a combination of sponsorships and advertising for vegan and cruelty-free products, and through tax-deductible donations at www.GoVeganRadio.org. combination of sponsorships and advertising for vegan and cruelty-free products, and through tax-deductible donations at www.GoVeganRadio.org.

 

Tim Gier:
Thanks for that Bob, the estimable Roger Yates has the next question, Professor Yates, Sir?

 

Roger Yates:
Thanks Tim

I was shocked listening to your Sept 5th, 2009 show - http://www.goveganradio.com:8484/shows/128kbps/go-vegan-with-bob-li...

-when you and your guest were distressed because HSUS’s CEO Wayne Pacelle had been interviewed on an agriculture show - AgriTalk – pointing out that the HSUS was not abolitionist, not about animal rights, not vegan based, and not against “farming” animals.

You played extracts from Pacelle’s interview and commented on them. My shock was based on the fact that you had previously interviewed Gary Francione on his views on animal welfarism.

Surely the first thing we need to understand about traditional welfarists is that they do welfare and they do not support animal rights or rights-based philosophies. I’m glad to know that you are now very critical of the HSUS. How do you explain the general confusion that seems to exist in the animal protection movement in relation to organisations’ philosophical positions?

 

Bob Linden:
I feel that there has been great deception, and that animal rights activists have unwittingly been turned into egg salesmen and pawns of animal exploitation. It is an educational process for all of us. I once

collected signatures against steel leghold traps, later learning the alternatives are worse.

I thought we were all on the same side. But would the animals accept "humane" slaughter and veal seller Wolfgang Puck as a hero? I don't accept the word "welfare". Nobody does "well". Everyone says "farewell", prematurely after a torturous life. I was shocked by the deception myself. It would take me too long to go into why I think HSUS is the animal exploitation industry.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Roger would like to ask a follow-up question, Bob. Thanks, Roger.

 

Roger Yates:
Thanks... Thanks for that Bob. I think it is good that more and more of us are questioning this notion of being on the “same side”. Truth is, some of “us” do not stand for the same things and do not want the same things. I’m so glad that you see that.

 

Bob Linden:

Dr Michael Greger argued with me last week how much better cage-free chicken liver pate is than foie gras. Who's on the side of the chicken? The vegans. HSUS said not to mention the VEGAN word when collecting

Prop 2 signatures? On whose side is H$U$?

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks again, Bob, for such considered responses. Tim Gier would like to ask a question now, go ahead, Tim.

 

Tim Gier:
When some activists take part in protests, demonstrations and other direct action, their efforts are often looked down upon by many in the "movement" as being counter-productive because of the negative image of vegan and animal activists they help to create in the mind of the general public.

Listening to the podcast of your show of 7/4/2010, one can hear you use quite a bit of "over the top" rhetoric Do you consider these kinds of performances as necessary to break through the noise of mass media in order to bring attention to the cause?

 

Bob Linden:
Hi Tim, What was that rhetoric? When am I not over the top?

 

Tim Gier:
Haha! I was thinking about your references to the Supreme Court.

 

Bob Linden:
The animals need all the help they can get. Who am I to judge what's effective? Theirs are the voices never heard, so maybe we have to speak louder. I get arrested for using a megaphone all the time. The supreme

court says it's free speech. And doesn't the supreme court need some help - thinking corporations are people. Monsanto recently hired Blackwater to infiltrate AR groups (HSUS?) And, we have such a repressive society that the truth seems over the top

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, again, Bob. I'd like to ask a question now.

You’ve interviewed over 500 people on your radio show. Are there any people or groups who stand out more than others, any you find more interesting and independent?

 

Bob Linden:
Since veganism is about everything, it's been quite a parade...I have always found Ingrid Newkirk to be an inspirational speaker, but also people like Dennis Kucinich, Cindy Sheehan (vegan from getting grossed out

by my show), Ramsey Clark, Supreme Master Ching Hai, various celebs. Ed Asner was interesting, because he wasn't vegan, but is a social activist against capital punishment. I pointed out how all animals are innocent but born into a death sentence...His eyes lit up. The next day his office called me for vegan restaurant locations...Always so many interesting guests...Paul Watson, Rod Coronado And it's the subject matter they bring...violence rate down 90 per cent at prison with vegan program, for example...hard to single out

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Very interesting, thanks, Bob! Tim Gier would like to ask another question, go ahead Tim

 

Tim Gier:
Bob, as Carolyn mentioned. you have had a wide variety of guests on your program, covering many aspects and sides of the debates about animal rights vs animal welfare, Direct Action, Single-Issue campaigns, the

health and environmental effects of veganism and many others. Do you think, that by hosting such a diversity of guests, that you might be confusing your audience as to what you yourself stand for, or that you might be seen as endorsing all the views of those who you give a platform to?

 

Bob Linden:
That's an interesting question, Tim. I often look at this as my vegan, animal rights education. I was very pro-HSUS before Gary Francione was a guest. My priority is to do what's best for the animals. I hope that my

position is clear that I don't think they should be used and exploited for anything. People will have to consider for themselves what they think is right.

But a wide perspective can only be helpful.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks so much, Bob.

 

Tim Gier:

May I ask a follow-up, Bob?

 

Bob Linden:

of course

Tim Gier:

Thanks! You mentioned Ingrid Newkirk, do you see PeTA as part of the problem in the same way as HSUS is?

Bob Linden:

PETA seems to have become quite controversial among animal advocates. It has positions on euthanasia and "welfare" issues that make many activists unhappy, and I am not in complete agreement with all of PETA's policies.

 

Sara Jones:

What PETA policies you are in agreement with?

Bob Linden:

However, I do believe the world is a better place for so much of PETA's pro-vegan animal advocacy and its positions against vivisection, circuses, and on and on. HSUS says it does not advocate veganism or animal

rights. When PETA opposes glue traps, NASA vivisection, animal sales in pet stores action alerts to stop poisoning animals, etc., it is on the right side. But even the name Humane Society is deceptive, and it rakes in millions from people thinking it takes care of puppies and kittens.

 

Tim Gier:

Bob, thanks for both your answers. Will has the next question for you, Will?

 

Will:

Hi Bob - You always say that you need to purchase airtime and appeal for tax-deductible donations on every show. Is airtime really expensive? You are also sponsored by loads of organisations, including the megarich careerist animal welfarists of PeTA. Do you take a wage from all these donations?

 

Bob Linden:
Airtime is expensive. When I was on Air America it was $3000 weekly. Now I am self syndicated. KTLK in Los Angeles costs $1000 weekly. GREEN 960 in SF is $400. We will be on in Portland, and are looking at New York and elsewhere. I have a tendency to leave sponsors' names on my website long after receiving any money toward advertising. PETA for example, advertised a year ago, as did IDA, so it's not loads coming in I have raised enough to rent air time over the years, but not enough to finance more than a financially-challenged animal activist lifestyle. I receive no salary - gas money sometimes, but the money has gone to keeping the show on the air. Whatever mega-welfare organizations you may see listed, THE PROGRAM IS ABOLITIONIST.

 

Tim Gier:
Bob, thank you again. Brooke Cameron has the next question, Brooke?

 

Brooke Cameron:
Hey Bob – your usual introduction to Go Vegan with Bob Linden is an absolute scream. For those ARZone members unfortunate enough to not have heard it, can you give us a text rendition right now? Thanks!

 

Bob Linden:
Greetings welcome bienvenidos, hola, aloha, ne how (china), Namaste, konnichiwa, bon jour, buon giorno, Sawadee krup, guten tag, chào wivi vacat bang (vietnamese)/ Hafa Adai (guam) / salam/ shalom Peace. Now. Go Vegan. Peace. How? Go Vegan! From left coast the genetically mutatedmcnugget

pharmaceutiakill vivisection prison killatiary industrial corpornation in the cheese covered post-constitutional bankrupt bribocratic coropprtocarcy mocracry crimincrocracy of the United Steaks of listeria home of uncle salmonella where they sure eat a lot of murdered animals, this is GO VEGAN with Bob Linden.

 

Brooke Cameron:
Thanks, Bob! Wow, great Intro!

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Roger Yates has one more question for you, Bob, before we move into a brief open session, where we'll ask all members to engage Bob. Go ahead, Rog

 

Roger Yates:
Thanks C

I was struck by the recent episode of the 33 Chilean miners that it seems odd that so much effort, time, and money can RIGHTLY go into the rescue of these men and yet society seems happy to buy feed for nonhuman
animals rather than food for the starving who are dying at the rate of some 30,000 every DAY (incl. 9/11, 2001). I notice that you were similarly critical of the Chilean case in relation to other issues at the start of your last Go Vegan show. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Bob Linden:
I'm just amazed by our priorities. We spend a trillion dollars to fight 12 guys we call Al Qaeda, who will never hurt any of us. And we totally ignore meat and dairy who have already killed our family members,

kill more Americans every year than all wars combined. Our brains can't function on a meat and dairy diet or we'd figure out some of this stuff.

 

Carolyn Bailey:
At this stage I’d like to sincerely thank Bob Linden for giving his time to ARZone today and responding to some great questions. I’d like now to open the chat up to all members who’d like to speak with Bob. Please feel free to send a private message to me, Roger Yates or Tim Gier if you’d like to engage Bob.

 

Free Radical:

Hi Bob, where does GO VEGAN air and what are your affiliates?

 

Bob Linden:

GO VEGAN has aired in LA and SF for 10 years. It has been on hiatus in LA. It will resume in LA shortly and continue on GREEN 960 in SF. GO VEGAN will start airing on KPOJ progressive talk in Portland within a few weeks. We are looking at New York, Seattle, and DC. But people anywhere can hear

archives at www.GoVeganRadio.org and get podcasts at itunes and go vegan radio.

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks Bob, and Free Radical. Richard McMahon would also like to ask you a question. Please go ahead, Richard.

 

Richard McMahan:
Hi Bob. Do you support the use of vaccines?

 

Bob Linden:
I do not support vaccines, nor do I allow myself to be vaccinated. I have interesting material on the subject on this weekend's show. Also, listen to my program with Gary Null, and check the work of Shiv Chopra

(whom you should hear on my show regarding other subjects including why the food supply is unsafe).

 

Tim Gier:
Bob, this has been very interesting! Kate-GO-VEGAN has a question but is diligently transcribing all of tonight's chat, so Carolyn will ask it on her behalf. Go ahead Ms. Bailey...

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, Tim. Einstein means a pure vegetarian diet, i.e. 100% plant based. I guess you're aware that a growing number of people have changed the way they deal with vegetarianism. Instead of saying vegetarianism is an unethical diet, they say that if someone calls themselves a vegetarian it

should not include milk or eggs or any other animal product, in which case they
should call themselves a lactovo vegetarian. A pure vegetarian consumes a vegan
diet with or without the vegan lifestyle. I wonder what your view is?

 

Bob Linden:
The word "vegetarian", which should mean "vegan", has been hijacked by the meat, dairy, and egg industries. A person who calls him or herself "vegetarian" but consumes animal products is engaged in forward thinking and backward action, accomplishing nothing. Having a breakfast of cheese melted on your eggs and a glass of milk does nothing for one's health, the animals, or the environment. The great vegan Cesar Chavez said if you are doing it because you are against cruelty and suffering - first give up dairy and eggs.

 

Kate-Go-Vegan:
Thank you Bob. I regard that as a brilliant answer, and I fully agree with you.

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Are there any more questions for Bob at this stage?

 

Roger Yates:
I have a final one if that's groovy.

 

Carolyn Bailey:
It's groovy, go ahead, Rog

 

Roger Yates:
Groovy

 

Roger Yates:
Hi Bob. I see that Paul Vogel has been online for your chat. He’s the founder of a new initiative in Ireland called the Irish Animal Education Trust - http://irishanimaleducationtrust.com/ - how about having him on your Go Vegan show sometime?

 

Bob Linden:
As long as he's not for cage-free eggs or happy veal, or something weird...I'm very interested in the international movement for animals and veganism, recently covering Africa extensively. Bring Paul on

 

Roger Yates:
great - he's a vegan abolitionist for sure!

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, Bob!

 

Carolyn Bailey:
I’d like to thank Bob Linden for being so generous with his time today and going way over the scheduled time. ARZone sincerely appreciates your thoughtful and insightful responses to great questions, Bob!

I’d also like to thank the ARZone members who contributed in making this a great chat with Bob.

 

Tim Gier:

Thanks Bob!

Erin:

thanks Bob!

Mangus O’Shales:

This was good. Thank you Bob.

Free Radical :

Thanks Bob!!

 

Christina Louise:

Thank you Bob, that was great!

Ben Hornby:

Thanks Bob, it's been a great chat!

Sky:

cheers!

Brooke Cameron:

Thanks, Bob. You've been awesome!

Roger Yates:

Thanks Bob, that was great.

Bob Linden:

Thank you all - I enjoyed it very much!

Richard McMahan:

Thank You Bob, and thank you ARZone.

Barbara DeGrande:

Thanks Bob! Thanks ARZ!

Fifi Leigh:

thanks.

 

Kate Go Vegan.

Gracias!

Fifi Leigh:

merci

Carolyn Bailey:

Please feel free to hang around and discuss anything that's been spoken about today

Roger Yates:

ARZone exists to promote rational discussion about our relations with other animals and about issues within the animal advocacy movement. Please continue the debate after a chat by starting a forum

discussion or by making a point under a transcript.

 

Erin:
Don’t forget to check out the new ARZone Q&A site, Words to Inspire: http://animalrightszone.blogspot.com/

Roger Yates:

Go Vegan Radio rocks - http://www.goveganradio.com/