Animal Rights Zone

Fighting for animal liberation and an end to speciesism

Transcript of Thomas Janak's Live ARZone Guest Chat

Transcript of Thomas Janak's Live ARZone Guest Chat

27 February 2010

3pm US Pacific Time

6pm Eastern Time

11pm UK time

and 28 February

9am Australian Eastern Standard Time

 

 

Carolyn Bailey

AR Zone is happy that you have joined us today for discussion with Thomas Janak, a qualified Pet Psychologist and Holistic Animal Healer, Reiki Master / Practitioner, and “Unicorn Energy Healer”.

Thomas holds certificates of merit in "Wolf Studies" and "Flower Essences and Remedies" and certificates of academic excellence in "Wildlife Rehabilitation" and "Working with totem animals and allies". Thomas also has a background in Metaphysics. Thomas Janak: “I specialize in animal communication and physical and spiritual healing. I am currently studying Canine Massage with the ICAT (UK). Over the years I have had the chance to work on numerous species from all sorts of rodents to lizards, goldfishes and even a traumatized Impala in Africa, although it is fair to say that I am most experienced with dogs and cats. Apart from actual healing I also see myself as an educator and am holding public talks frequently. I am fortunate enough to have worked with people from the age of 6 to 75 and of course with animals of all ages.” Thomas produces and hosts a weekly radio show, Wild Time, which aims to highlight the plight of animals and the environment. Please give our guest a warm AR Zone welcome. Hello Thomas!

 

Kelly Weening: 
Hi Thomas

 

Dave Warwak
Hey man

 

Ceci M
Hey Thomas!

 

Carolyn Bailey: 
Thanks so much for being here Tommo!

 

Thomas Janak

You're very welcome! Great 2b here

 

Humane Animal Resources: 
hi thomas, this is seraphime, so glad to make it.

 

Thomas Janak: 

Glad u could make it Seraphime

 

Carolyn Bailey

Before we begin, Thomas has elected to reply to his questions spontaneously, and would therefore very much appreciate our patience in allowing him time to reply. We appreciate Thomas making the effort
to reply to each question individually and thoughtfully.

 

Dwayne Young
Hello, all:o)

 

Thomas Janak: 
Hi Dwayne

 

Dwayne Young
Hi Thomas.

 

Carolyn Bailey: 

I'd now like to ask Roger Yates to ask the first question on behalf of Grace, who was unable to be here, Rog?

 

Roger Yates

I was wondering can i ask Thomas about his love of wolfs? New genetic testing results have recently revised the Indian and Himalayan Wolf subspecies status to that of a separate species. This type of testing is sure to continue to change some of the long standing ideas regarding the species and subspecies classifications of the wolf.

 

Thomas Janak:

I am sure in the future many of our beliefs will be flipped on the head by scientific findings when we talk about the wolf we are mainly talking about the family of Canidae and the order of canines and the subspecies of the grey wolf as well as the fox, the coyote and the chakal and of course the domesticated dog are all part of it so in short, yes, it doesnt surprise me that there r new findings having said that, it is clear that the dog has evolved /adapted from the wolf.

 

Roger Yates
thanks Thomas

 

Thomas Janak
my pleasure

 

Carolyn Bailey 
Thanks very much Thomas, the next question will be asked by me on behalf of Lisa

 

Thomas Janak
Sure

 

Carolyn Bailey:
Hi Tom. The Irish Green Party are in government coalition with a rightwing party. What do you think about people who think politicians are interested in animal rights-aren't politicians really limited to messing around with animal welfare?

 

Vegan Student

If possible I would also like to ask a question. I do have time but please let me know if I can at one point or the other

 

Thomas Janak

In my experience politicians are not about animal rights as this would likely mean people's status for the animals, and the abolition of their use, and since there are many industries involved in animal abuse/use and those individuals have considerable power, politicians might be able to do a thing or two but only regarding welfare.

 

Carolyn Bailey

thanks Thomas

 

Thomas Janak

sure thing

 

Carolyn Bailey 

Bobbo also has a question which will be asked by Roger Yates, Roger?

 

Roger Yates: 

Thomas, it seems you are moving more and more to animal rights and veganism (well done!!!).

What is your opinion on the PeTA-like group in Ireland ARAN ~ are you worried about the use of sexism and celebrity in the Irish movement? and I'm spent (eg done)

 

Thomas Janak:

Yes, I am moving rapidly away from animal welfare. In all honesty when I pitched for my radio show I knew that I couldn't sell it as an animal rights show and it worked! I have known ARAN for quite a few years
now and have reported on their activities for different stations and ARAN founder John Carmody was on my show as well and yes I am concerned about the use of sexism as a means to draw in the crowds. The last thing I want to see is Bono and the Edge singing "I still haven't got what I am looking for" - That said, John and his people have their hearts in the right place and I hope they will find unique ways to get their points
across.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks again Thomas for your amazing insight

 

Thomas Janak: 

You're welcome

 

Carolyn Bailey

Dave Warwak has the next question for you, Dave?

 

Dave Warwak

Hi Thomas. Thank you for all your hard work waking the dead. I know you are called Doctor Doolittle because you talk to the animals. What do you say to the animals and what do the animals say to you?

 

Thomas Janak:

Hi Dave, good question! In most cases I provide one on one work on traumatised animals, who convey mainly in images the stress they're under and the disbelief that they r so misunderstood. My main message
is to hang in there as it is at least a start that a guy like me, who isn't a vet, is now being called and asked about their well being. In actual fact I have to talk more to the "owners" as they r the ones that don't get it.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks, Kelly Weening has a question for you as well Thomas, Kelly?

 

Thomas Janak

Thanks again for that great question Dave I am all ears

 

Dave Warwak

Cool

 

Kelly Weening: 

Thanks Carolyn

 

Kelly Weening: 

Hi, Thomas, we have rescued 3 female dogs that were thrown in a garbage dump when they were one day old. They are now 2 years old. We got the first 2 dogs when they were 3 weeks old they were with a foster mom before this. When they were 6 weeks old I found out that one of other pups who had
previously been spoken for was again homeless so I took her as well. The most dominate female occasionally decides to beat on the newest every few months making her cry.

She also beats on her other sister and she doesn't back down they are very hard to break up when they get into it. Is there some way we can get the dominate female to not beat on her sisters.

 

Thomas Janak

Thanks Kelly - well, just a quick question b4 I answer: Are they spayed/neutered?

 

Kelly Weening

Not yet they are scheduled in 4 days

 

Thomas Janak 

O.k in essence, the alpha female can do that in order to re-assert her status over the pack. They are usually much calmer once they're all spayed (hormones, you know) if one isn't backing off there
might be a change in the packing order, which very rarely escalates having said that, my advise would be for you to become the pack leader (unless they live away from you) because then you only have to use energy and a few sounds to make them understand who is boss the other option is to not take
over the pack but become the so called "omega wolf", who invites them to play when they're about to escalate. Oh, one more thing, there are good books about that out there

 

Kelly Weening

Thanks Thomas, It usually comes out of the blue. They play fine then just all of a sudden she lunges for one or the other. What are your suggestions for books. I am in Canada

 

Thomas Janak 

Honestly, it never comes out of the blue as dogs almost always give warning signs ~ usually a low growl one paw on top of the dog, that sort of thing havent got a title for you BUT there is a lot of books on behaviour and how to read them better and to intervene b4 things happen important is that you are calm and collected about it, other wise they will not listen to you.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks Thomas, fantastic information!

 

Thomas Janak 

ur welcome

 

Kelly Weening: 

They are signals I am missing. She did it today again just after coming in from playing outside didn't seem to be a warning just went after her. Thanks Thomas.

 

Thomas Janak

May I just say Kelly that usually we're only starting to interfere when we're getting frustarted about it and by then the game is already up. Taking a deep breath and believing that this can be done is the first powerful step.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Kate has a question for you also, but is doing the transcript today, so I believe Roger is going to ask on her behalf, Roger?

 

Roger Yates: 

If we accept that wolves were domesticated to become dogs, and that adult wolves would not have been so
gullible as to trust humans (whereas very young cubs may have been more trusting), do you think that wolf domestication happened by humans murdering some (probably many) wolf mothers to kidnap their cubs and then selectively breeding from the most compliant of orphan cubs?

 

Thomas Janak

Well, firstly, I wouldn't accept that wolves were sort of domesticated to become dogs they had no say in it.


What I believe happened at some stage or another is that wolves adapted and probably protected human settlements as they were being fed. Some human animals must have understood that wolves are very
clever otherwise they would have killed them all off. It was a big mistake tho to take in cubs/puppies since their so called blueprint behaviour didn't quite match the requirements put on them. One can see it today very clear. I hear people blaming the dog (which has been altered in shape and form and size by men and thereby costing immense suffering for the animals) for not understanding what it is they want them to do instead of trying to mutually come to an understanding of some sort.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks again Thomas for your great responses

 

Thomas Janak:

:-) sure

 

Carolyn Bailey

Franc has a question for you next, but again, was unable to be here in person, so Roger will ask it as well, 

Roger?

 

Thomas Janak

Poor Rog

 

Carolyn Bailey: 

Hah, he'll get over it!

 

Roger Yates: 

There are 3 parts to this one Thomas so... and I am determined to say "done" at the end this time

I do energy work in Ireland and am very interested to hear a daily method or practice for developing clear communication with my own horse. With other individuals and collectives of animals, energy clearing relieves a lot of pain and suffering but the most familiar animal remains the most mysterious. A lot of behaviour, preferences and responses are still hard to read even after eleven years companionship. Thank you very much. Best regards, Frances Micklem

 

Thomas Janak: 

O.k., here we go - it is very important to know at this stage that working with your own animal(s) will always be more difficult because one is simply too close, too attached in a way and ones own energy field (worrying for instance) will send a message to the animal that something may not be quite o.k. here. Animals mainly look for leaders and become very confused by their owner's behaviour secondly horses are unique in that they are very, very spiritual and therefore easily get stressed and out of balance. Also, they r by nature prey animals andas such are not as responsive as predators one way of getting through is to use a mechanism whereby (visualisation) one assumes to be just another horse, trying to find out what's wrong. This way they often bond well and open up.Don't think this is too airy fairy - remember: Ever since people started using animal sounds and mimicry when working with animals they ofetn have had a breakthrough.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks again Tommo!

 

Thomas Janak: 

sure!!

 

Carolyn Bailey

I would like to ask you a question myself next. I was wondering if you could share with us your experience in deciding to live a vegan lifestyle?

 

Thomas Janak:

ok.




Thomas Janak

I'd love to. In essence, my work turned me vegan. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that working on a farm animal and then going home and consuming one doesn't make sense! But what made going vegan stick was a spiritual conversation with a cow. Once I met this beautiful being on a soul level I could never eat meat again. Thanks to the universe for this experience.

 

Carolyn Bailey

Thanks Thomas, very much.

 

Thomas Janak

ur welcome. Thinking about this actually makes me getting goosebumps

 

Carolyn Bailey

You study pet behaviour and must have seen lots of exploitative interaction between people and their animal property. Since animal rights would end animal use, how do you deal with people wanting you to help them control their domesticates?

 

Dwayne Young: 

great question!

 

Thomas Janak 

Good question ... firstly, I don't work with people that want to control their animals! I make it very clear that I don't train their animals to do things so that the owner is happy. Owner's have to be prepared to work with the situation and to understand that they're always part of the problem! Like many human animals I have enjoyed and do enjoy the company of animals but I don't see them as pets but as friends that share the house and time with me this makes a big difference to me and all the beings I work with. Especially from a shamanic point of view I don't distinguish between humans and animals, yet, of course have to acknowledge that their needs are different to mine and that many people will not see them the way I
see them.

 

Carolyn Bailey: 

Thanks again Thomas!

 

Thomas Janak 

sure

 

Carolyn Bailey 

We have one more question from Dwayne, before we end the formal chat and, time permitting begin some open chat

 

Dwayne Young: 

Can an injured animal communicate to you about the pain they feel, and how they got hurt? How is it exactly that you are able to acquire this information from an animal?'

 

Thomas Janak

o.k.

 

Thomas Janak:

Thanks Dwayne, Roger, Carolyn (lol) for this question! ...

 

Dwayne Young: 

my pleasure:o)

Lol

'our' pleasure..

 

Roger Yates: 

a three hander

 

Dwayne Young

indeed!

 

Thomas Janak

There are quite a number of ways in which that can happen e.g. I can meet the animal as a healer in a spiritual conversation, and ask him/her (not it, never it!!!) to SHOW me where it hurts and often I get a
sensation of where the pain is if it is physical or psychologicall for instance. Sometimes the animal becomes "hollow" and only shows the area of distress other times colours come in, relating to one of 7 energy fields (chakras) that all beings have and I can visualise the problem other times colours come in, relating to one of 7 energy fields (chakras) that all beings have and I can visualise the problem and sometimes all I ask of the animal is to allow me to enter its aura and feel the discomfort another great thing
is the communication with an animal alive or passed on through a photograph all that is needed is a picture where the eyes can be clearly seen as I use them as an entrance point to the soul! bottom line is that one always has to ask permission before anything gets attempted!

 

Carolyn Bailey: 

Thanks so much Thomas for taking the time to share your vast wisdom with us today, it's so very much appreciated

 

Thomas Janak:

My pleasure. It is past midnight here but I could hang around for another hour if anyone wants to ask me something

 

Humane Animal Resources:

it's been very informative!

 

Thomas Janak 

(am listening to La Roux, keeps me awake) sure Thanks Seraphim

 

Roger Yates: 

I am listening to Unicorn by T Rex

 

Humane Animal Resources:

i have a question

 

Thomas Janak 

o.k.

 

Carolyn Bailey 

Thanks Thomas, and thanks for being such a good sport!

 

Thomas Janak 

this is fun actually

I really don't mind being here for a bit longer

I am all ears Seraphime

 

Dwayne Young

Thanks so much Thomas! I have to run...Just wanted to say thank you for your time, Thomas...and Roger and Carolyn! Excellent job organizing this evenings session.

 

Humane Animal Resources:

i think you touched on it with your final answer, but i'd just like to confirm - before you do any communicating with an animal, do you ask for permission from the animal first? and do you do this telepathically or in what way?

 

Thomas Janak

Thanks for being here Dwayne

 

Dwayne Young: 

Peace:o)

 

Thomas Janak: 

yes, either telepathically or by "sending in" my own power animals to ask on my behalf.

 

Humane Animal Resources: 

Your totem spirit animals?

 

Thomas Janak: 

No, my totem animal is the horse and as a totem it is mainly there to protect me and my extendedn family my "personal" companions are the wolf and the cheetah and they would do the honours.

 

Kelly Weening:

Is this gift something you were born with or have you learned along the way?

 

Humane Animal Resources:

thank you, Thomas!

 

Thomas Janak: 

Probably both, Kelly. I surely have developed it much more since I actually took the time to study anatomy, physiology and shamanism having said that, I always had a thing or two going on between myself and animals spiritually. You're welcome Seraphime

 

Kelly Weening

Thanks Thomas. It was great to be included in this conversation. 

 

Thomas Janak

Thank YOU Kelly!!

 

Roger Yates

Feel free to jump in with question now, people

 

Robin

How do you know what your totem animal is? Is it one that you resonate with??

 

Carolyn Bailey

I have a trivial question if I may, after Robin

 

Robin

sure Carolyn and i must apologize for being late got time differences wrong :-(

 

Thomas Janak: 

Hi Robin, many animals resonate with me (and other people of course) and a so called power animal is an animal spirit or numerous ones that can stay with you for a while or for ever some just stay for a while because they have a message or a task that you need to be learning and they're here for support. TOTEMS ... historically belong to your own clan or family and feel quite different.

 

Robin: 

ty very much Thomas :-)

 

Thomas Janak: 

you're welcome

 

Roger Yates: 

Thanks Thomas - anyone?

 

Robin

yes may i ask another?

 

Roger Yates

of course - it is open now

 

Robin:

ty

I do not feel the prescence of a deceased very close furchild...i usually do any possibilities why not?

 

Thomas Janak: 

When was the passing?

 

Robin: 

a year ago

 

Thomas Janak 

o.k. the first thing that I get energetically here is possibly that one of the main issues in your life (and not only in yours believe me) is letting go! ...

 

Robin

guilty

 

Thomas Janak: ... 

the other posibility of course is that you have to ground yourself in order to connect deeper. D

 

Robin: 

ty and i have been very off this past year so that is a good explanation

 

Matjaz Kovse

I started to follow very interesting conversation a little bit late (and I am looking forward for transcripts), so I hope I am not repeating what has already been discussed .. Which are the creatures you are able to communicate?

 

Matjaz Kovse:

in particular can you communicate also with ''small creatures''? where is the border if any?

 

Thomas Janak 

Hi Matjaz, there is no limits re creatures, yet there are differences in the level of "fluent conversation/communication" depending on the circumstances e.g. energy on a given day, discomfort of the animal, how many others are around and so on.

 

Kelly Weening: 

Do you find it is harder to communicate with their human companions there.

 

Humane Animal Resources:

I share ur question Matjaz re small creatures

 

Thomas Janak 

where?

 I do not contact humans as such. If they come in they are no different to animals energetically.

 

Matjaz Kovse

I am a mathematican, so this is a common way of thinking for me... what is the ''smallest creature'' you were able to communicate so far?

 

Humane Animal Resources: 

yes, like insects?

 

Thomas Janak

oh, in the present! Well, of course, humans are very difficult because they don't listen well and are also easily embarrassed and conditioned, Insects can be tricky because they often appear in large numbers and it can be difficult to single out an energy.

 

Humane Animal Resources: 

Have you found them to have a collective consciousness?

 

Thomas Janak: 

yes and no ... even pack animals like humans or wolves tend to be following a certain energy yet they certainly are individuals. I noticed that bees for instance are no different in that respect.

 

Humane Animal Resources:

Wow, fascinating, Thomas. thank you!

 

Thomas Janak 

My pleasure Seraphime.

 

Matjav Kovse

a little bit more provocative, but I am sure we have all experienced this type of questions (and we usually have good answers to them), but anyway just out of curiosity...what about plants? (I am just reading
very interesting book by Hofstadter: I am strange loop (which recommend to all of you) he turned to veganism after writing this book. So my question is inspired by first few pages of that book. To be more precise the author draws a cone of consciousness (which he claims anyone of us uses in his/her mind) where the order is the following: atoms, viruses, microbes, mites, mosquitos.

 

Thomas Janak: 

I see ... that sounds like a biologist or ecologist trying to make sense of things I don't work that way. I am a very emotional person and feel energy in trees, grass pr animals, so I have no hierarchy as such.

 

Matjaz Kovse

Yes, he is a logician (his most famous work is Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid)

 

Thomas Janak

I see, probably of Vulcan descent, haha ...

 

Matjaz Kovse: 

great answer...thank you very much :-

 

Thomas Janak:

I am sure that logic is a good way to look at things, too - just not my thing! You're welcome Matjaz

 

Thomas Janak: 

Anyone else??

 

Robin

yes

 

Carolyn Bailey

Ask away Robin

 

Robin:

I think most of us here are animal lovers, now for someone who can communicate with them would you see those who have to euthanize for instance at a trying to think of the word, well at a less godly or spiritual state?

 

Thomas Janak: 

That's a really great question Robin ...

 

Robin: 

Glad u understand what i am asking.

 

Thomas Janak ... 

I know that in some cultures euthanisation is virtually unheard of and seen as a big intrusion and even as a challenge of the "big authorities" and I can only answer what I personal think! Here is my two cents then ... I worked with vets for a few years and in an animal shelter as well and have seen my fair share of tragedies and euthanisations and in many cases I felt very sad but also reliefed, knowing that further suffering in the physical sense is no longer there. Here is what I think: My mother passed away in 2004 after battling cancer for three years, in the end weighing just about 30kgs/5 stone and she was in so much pain that she actually asked a number of times to be "picked up" and relieved. And often when I am there for this transformation (and I think thats what dying is) I feel peace and find comfort in knowing that euthanisation has
prevented further suffering and in short I am pro choice be it for human animals or non human animals.

 

Matjaz Kovse

A week before my very good friend has passed away, he was a labrador and spent almost ten years with my family, I felt very strong energy inside my anahata chakra (I don't know much about chakras) do you think this was related with him?

 

Robin: 

ty for ur answer and very very sorry on the loss of mom

 

Kelly Weening: 

Thank you so much for sharing that personal story. I agree 100% choice should be available.

 

Thomas Janak 

Matjaz, I can't comment because I dont know what an anahata chakra is or where it is located BUT I know that we can absolutely tune in to changes in the energy field of a loved one. In my experience most people would feel it first in their solar plexis but then we are all different!! You're all very welcome

 

 

Robin: 

I think it is like the heart chakra?

 

Matjaz Kovse: 

he was in Slovenia and I was in France at that time. he had a cancer  and was suffering very much and was later euthanised. Ok, anahata chakra is close to the heart. 

 

Matjaz Kovsedone.

and thats what that is, I suppose. thank you

 

Angela Dillon:

Can I ask a qu?

 

Thomas Janak: 

sure

 

Angela Dillon:

Where did you learn pet psychology and also how do you suggest we learn more about communicating with animals. I feel I do to some extent but want to improve it.

 

Thomas Janak:

Good question! ... Pet psychology can both be studied as a discipline in many colleges as well as online BUT, truth is, one has to have access to animals and one needs to spend time with them.  I also think that learning how to meditate and how to be still in oneself makes communicating with animals easier.

 

Angela Dillon:

Thanks. Yes it would be hard it your mind is too busy.

 

Thomas Janak: 

To be honest, the reason why I did wolf studies was because after studying pet psychology and noticing that vets often havent got a clue about how to connect on a behavioural level, I needed more answers than pet psychology alone could provide.

 

Angela Dillon: 

My dogs "walk all over me" but they also follow me around more than the rest of the family - what level am i in the hierarchy?

I meant what kind in the pack omega?

 

Thomas Janak: 

I have a lot of "time out" with my dog or dogs I work with, therefore my energy keeps shifting BUT it is important that besides all the play biting and so on one has to remain focussed and determined and keep that up so that the animals feel secure. Luckily, most dog owners are in charge trick is NOT to be dominant while in charge

 

Robin:

lol i have learned that to be very true (2 bully breed mixes also)

 

Angela Dillon:

Thank you again. Very interesting. What kind of training do vets get? They would study behaviour I presume?

 

Matjaz Kovse: 

Just a side remark, J. M. Coetzee's Disgrace, has a very interesting part about euthanasia (the movie with John Malkovich can not recover Coetzee's power of words, but it is still worth watching)...which literature you like/recommend?

 

Thomas Janak: 

Angela, vets just don’t get too deeply involved with the different layers of behaviour and emotional capacities of domesticated animals.

 

Matjaz Kovsedone: what do you think about Albert Schweitzer?

 

Thomas Janak: 

To be honest, I read stuff like "Animal speak" by Ted Andrews because shamans by default see themselves as part of the web of life and not as a separate entity.

 

Robin:

I love Ted Andrews

 

Roger Yates: 

Thanks for doing this Thomas

 

Elizabeth Rose

Thank you for an interesting discussion, Mr Janak, and the organisers

 

Thomas Janak: 

My pleasure. I enjoyed it

 

Robin: 

TY very much Thomas :-)

 

Thomas Janak: 

I am also on fb: www.facebook.com/wildtimeradio

 

Kelly:

Thank you for your time and valuable insight. have a great night

 

Robin: Super

 

Pearl Lotus: Thank you, Thomas

 

Thomas Janak: 

Thanks guys. Good night! Am off now!! Carolyn and Roger pls let me know when the transcript is up!!

 

Robin: 

Sleep well...goodnite

 

Humane Animal Resources:

love animal speak book, too.

 

Thomas Janak: 

Thank you all for your questions and interest in our animal kin!! bye for now

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thomas, you've been wonderful, thanks so much

 

Thomas Janak: 

: It is a great book, seraphime!!

 

Humane Animal Resources: 

thanks so much, thomas! :-)

 

Thomas Janak: 

bye now !!! guys

 

Robin: nite

 

Roger Yates: 

Thanks Thomas

 

Roger Yates: 

You are a star

 

Matjaz Kovse: 

thank you Thomas

 

Angela Dillon:

Bye

 

Roger Yates: 

Thanks to everyone who asked questions and contributed - well done to all!!

 

Robin: 

ty!!!

 

Roger Yates: 

it was different but good!

 

Robin: 

yes it was good

 

Angela Dillon:

Thanks Carolyn and Roger - have to dash. Bye for now.

 

Roger Yates: 

goodnight all- wherever you are!

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks again everyone, your support is very much appreciated!

 

***********

 

ARZone exists to promote rational discussion about our relations with other animals and about issues within the animal advocacy movement. Please continue the debate after “chats” by starting a forum discussion or making a point under a transcript.

 

 

 


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