Cameron Blewett Chat Transcript of 25/26 September 2010

[Carolyn Bailey]

Transcript of Cameron Blewett’s ARZone chat transcript of:

25 September 2010 at:

3pm US Pacific Time

6pm US Eastern Time

11pm UK Time, and

26 September 2010 at:

8am Australian Eastern Standard Time

Carolyn Bailey:

ARZone would like, today, to welcome Cameron Blewett as our Live Guest Chat.

Cameron is an abolitionist vegan residing in Brisbane, Australia. Cameron has been vegan for over 17 years
and approaches veganism from the abolitionist position, which holds that

animals have an inherent right not to be exploited.

Cameron writes for The Scavenger, which is an online portal of features, commentary and news that
you’re unlikely to find in mainstream media.

Cam is also President of V.EX (Vegan Existence Inc.). V.EX (an abolitionist animal rights organisation) is the only solely vegan group in Queensland.

After spending many years as an avid hunter along with serving time in the Army Reserve, Cam now sees the
futility in both activities.

More recently, Cam’s achievements have been as an advocate for workers' rights within the trade union movement. Being a keen writer he is rarely seen without his cherished

fountain pen and notebook, taking them almost everywhere he goes.

Some of Cameron’s more recent rants and waffles can be found at cameronblewett.wordpress.com and ausvegan.wordpress.com

Cameron has generously agreed to engage ARZone members today on topics ranging from V. EX to his extensive advocacy work and more. Please welcome Cam to ARZone.

Carolyn Bailey:
Welcome, Cam!

Cameron Blewett:

Hi all

Tim Gier:

Hello Cameron!

Caroline Raward:

Hey Cameron:-)

Michaela Österlund:

Hi Cameron

Lorna Devious:

Hi Cam

Roger Yates:

Hi Cameron

Mangus O'Shales:

Hi Cameron

Fifi Leigh:

hi

Carolyn Bailey:

Before we begin, I’d like to request that people refrain from interrupting Cam during the chat session, and
utilise the open chat, at the completion of Cam’s pre-registered questions, for

any questions or comments you have.

I’d like now to call on Lorna Dev Ious to ask the first question, Lorna?

Lorna Devious:

Cam, could you please tell us what it was like for you growing up in a family that hunted?

Cameron Blewett:

Hi Lorna. At that time, as it was something that the family did, I didn't see anything wrong with it. We spent
more time going fishing than we did going hunting and can honestly say that I am grateful for

that experience.

Because it puts me in an almost unique position of having been on the other side of the fence in a 'past
life’. Also, we weren’t a family of trophy hunters. What was hunted and killed was given to dogs or other family members to eat. I hope that answered your question.

Lorna Devious:
Thank you:-)

Tim Gier:

Thanks Cameron, Carolyn Bailey has the next question-- Go ahead Carolyn

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Tim!

Could you tell me more about V. EX (Vegan Existence) please, Cam. How would someone go about being a part of V. EX and what does your group aim to achieve in the short term?

Cameron Blewett:
Hi, Carolyn. To join V.EX it’s as simple as downloading a membership form off the website, filling it in and sending it off. And presto.. :-)

In the short term, V.EX's main goal is to increase the presence of veganism in Queensland, by holding monthly talks at the
Brisbane Square Library, on a variety of subjects ranging from what do vegans

eat, to general abolition discussions.

V.EX is about getting an interaction with and from people about veganism, not just holding monthly
social dinners.

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Cam. The next question will be asked by Roger Yates, go ahead Rog.

Roger Yates:

Thanks...

In your April 2010 blog entry “Abolition Vs Welfare reform/regulation Part I,” you discuss the economic efficiencies in animal welfare initiatives, giving Temple Grandin’s

slaughterhouse designs and the RSPCA Qld’s “Chicken rights, farming wrongs” as examples.
Many animal advocates seem to simply assume that any change in production will
automatically cost industry money and that MUST be a good thing, driving up
costs and ultimately impacting on profits.

Law professor and animal rights philosopher Gary Francione has written and spoken about this, explaining
that the inherent welfare problems of industrialised farming are only now being

addressed by the user industries themselves - after WWII, the focus was on
tightly packing animals into intensive systems of use and dealing with problems
by, for example, debeaking and tail and teeth removal.

Do you feel that animal advocates are still reluctant to accept such points and, instead, are seeking
some example when reform has negatively impacted on industry? Is this not a

rather hit-and-miss strategy compared to the straightforward advocacy of
veganism as a moral baseline, and as the basic duty we owe to nonhuman animals?

Cameron Blewett:
Hi Roger, and that is a great question. Firstly, I am not aware of any sort of 'reform' that has negatively impacted on industry in the long term. Secondly, we all know animal

agri-business has a very well oiled PR machine that has a virtual unlimited
budget when compared to actual AR groups. They can put press releases out about
how well they are doing, when compared to something else, and an easily misled
public will lap it up. We are seeing this out here in Australia now, with the
advertising campaign that Steggles is doing. And yes, veganism MUST be the very
first thing that we promote, everything else is secondary.

Roger Yates:
Thanks Cam

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks again, Cam! Tim Gier would like to ask a question now, go ahead Tim.

Tim Gier:
When considering that veganism and abolition are part of what is essentially a Peace movement, can you address how it might be possible that MDA, which some view as violence, can

further the goal of peace?

Cameron Blewett:
Hi, Tim. Thank you for this question and it will probably get a little bit tricky here... Firstly, it depends on what a person defines as violence. For some, property destruction is not a

violent act. And whilst I am not advocating here that we all leave our
computers and torch a butchers, some of the MDA tactics create a greater economic
cost for industry. A cost that is ultimately passed on to the consumer...

We all know that there are some people that don't really care about the vegan message or animal rights,
because the only thing they care about is how much things cost. If MDA makes it

more expensive for people to buy animal products, then I am all for that. We
all know that the true cost of animal products is hidden behind layers of
subsidies and tax breaks, so maybe it might be time for that cost to come out
in other ways.

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks again Cam, Lorna Dev Ious would like to ask another question now, go ahead Lorna …

Lorna Devious:

Cam, you’ve been vegan for more than 17 years, that’s a great achievement, congratulations! Can you describe some of the difficulties you must surely have faced becoming vegan in
Australia in the 1980/90’s?

Cameron Blewett:
Now that is an interesting question Lorna. Way back when I did go vegan, yes it was difficult initially, though I would say a lot easier. Because back then there wasn’t the abundance

of vegetarian suitable foods, that is vegan. In the early days I made a lot of
the food myself, and there wasn’t the sneaky animal ingredients in things that
there is now. When I was vegan,
vegetarian was starting to become a trendy and acceptable term, so I had to
explain what a vegan is a lot, though sadly to say, it is something that I
still have to do here in Qld, though there is a lot more ready made food, which
makes it easy for someone that is culinarily lazy like me :-) As for the difficulties,
I didn’t face many as it was a relatively unknown term where I was, and sadly
still is.

Lorna Devious:
Thank you :-)

Tim Gier:
Thanks again Cameron, Roger Yates has another question for you, Go ahead Dr. Yates

Roger Yates:
Thanks Tim!

You have written about “factionalism” in the animal advocacy movement. Since division is pretty
standard in all social movements, what are your main concerns about this?

Cameron Blewett:

Hi Roger. Yes, I know there are divisions in almost every social movement. What concerns me is that the
'enemy' knows this too and is more than happy to exploit that weakness in the

media and do things to keep one side happy, whilst further alienating those on
the other side. Codes of practice and phase - ins, keep the welfarists happy
today, and both parties can hold hands and say we are making great change, etc.
Though what has it really accomplished? It is a divide and conquer tactic that
is used over and over again. The more that there is seen to be division within
the AR movement, the less 'credibility' the actual AR proponents have when it
comes time to talking to the general population

Jason Ward:
Thanks Cameron

Next up the wonderful Ben Hornby has a question he'd like to ask, go ahead Ben

Ben Hornby:

You approach veganism from the abolitionist position. Why do you feel it not to be beneficial to focus on
the other animals who are imprisoned now, suffering now and in need of help

now?

Some suggest abolitionists have given up on animals who are currently suffering. How do you reply to those
people?

Cameron Blewett:

Hi Ben. That is one thing that totally confuses me. How can promoting veganism, and only veganism be
giving up on the animals that are suffering? Telling someone to go vegetarian

or eat happy meat still means that people are consuming animal products. Then
what about the animals they wear? Their leather shoes, wool jumper, etc. What I usually ask them, is how they can justify an X yr phase in for some incremental change, when veganism and
abolition STOP all animal use, not change the way they are used.

Its all about getting them to justify their position, not me explaining mine.

Roger Yates:

Thanks Cam. Next Q comes from Jason Ward who is busy transcribing - just to prove that men can multitask
too, go for it Jay...

Jason Ward:

Thanks Roger...

Hi Cam, could you please explain how you came around to veganism and, if you do fully accept the abolitionist approach, how did you come around to that?

Cameron Blewett:
I originally became vegan due to a book called "fit for life". Whilst it was and still is a 'diet' book, some of the things that were mentioned in there made a lot of

sense to me. I looked at what I ate, objectively and without emotion, then made
the decision to go vegan, after reading other books about it, and realised that
I wouldn’t end up in hospital somewhere, being protein or iron deficient. I
think the turning point for me for adopting the abolitionist position was one
of the epiphanies that I had when reading through a hunting magazine, and came
to the conclusion that ALL animal use is wrong, regardless of whether they are
a cute and cuddly seal pup or an 'ugly' 300kg wild pig.

Jason Ward:
Thanks Cam

Next Jason Nightingale has a question he'd like to ask

Go ahead Jason

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, Jay. Jason is busy at the moment, so I'll ask for him.

Where is the future of vegan activism heading? Do you see a future for the large organisations, or do you
see online activism becoming more relevant?

Cameron Blewett:

I think there is a need for both. There needs to be a public organisational appearance to portray a
professional image to the media, and give the message a greater impact to get

the message out there. The online activism is good for those people that are
curious and want to know more, yet for peer group reasons be unable to ask
someone about it in person. Done

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks again, Cam. Roger Yates has another question to ask, go ahead Rog.

Roger Yates:
Cheers ears...

Your involvement in the Scavenger looks interesting. There is a discussion of contemporary feminist
issues in the Feminism and Pop Culture section, and you also wrote about the

commodification of women - http://cameronblewett.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/what-has-happened-to...

You’ll know that feminist issues are current in the animal advocacy movement, not least due to
PeTA-inspired juvenility.

So-called postmodern feminists insist on their “right” to self-commodify, seemingly indifferent to wider socio-political consequences. What are your views on this?

Cameron Blewett:
Thanks Roger. I see this as one of the hypocrisies of the modern feminist movement. They can and as we are living in a 'free' society, commodify themselves as much as they want, dress

any way that they want, and so on. I just think it is a confusing position. Motor
racing uses 'pit girls' to promote their products at racing events, though how
do lettuce ladies and go naked for fur promote it? All it really does is promoting
the peta brand.

These same feminists, whilst not having a problem with that would jump up and down about strip clubs and
other adult industries, because they exploit females. Yet in western society, everyone has a choice

about what they do and how they earn their money.

Carolyn Bailey:
Thanks, Cam. Lisa Rees has a question for you now, but appears to be still asleep! So, Jay will ask for her. Thanks, Jay.

Jason Ward:
Thanks Carolyn

I would like to know if you are against working on single issue campaigns, and if so, would you recommend
that I do nothing to try to stop the camel cull of 100s of thousands of camels

within the next 4 years? If you think it’s a good idea to continue on with it,
what would you suggest to be the best way to go about it, and if not, why not?

Cameron Blewett:
Thanks Jason. I do see single issue campaigns as counter productive, and confusing to the general public. From what I understand, the camels will be exported overseas to a

foreign market. So the more productive thing would be to stop demand not
supply. Because, if they aren’t killed here, they will be killed somewhere
else. As for the best way to go about preventing the slaughter, question the govt
dept that has allowed them to be slaughtered in the first place.

Draw attention to what ever false argument they have used to justify killing the camels, and promote ALL
animal use as being wrong regardless of what the animal is.

Jason Ward:

Thank you Cameron.

Carolyn Bailey:

If I may follow up on behalf of Lisa, I'd like to ask if you're suggesting she withdraw from this campaign?

Cameron Blewett:

Carolyn, that really depends on what she is doing now. If she is writing letters and things like that don't
stop. She might just have to change tactics a little bit.

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Cam. I do believe she's doing the petitions, letters etc. Tim Gier has another
question for you, all yours, Tim.

Tim Gier:

In your essay "The Future of Vegan Activism" you highlight some of the different approaches
to ending animal exploitation but stop short of reaching any conclusion about

which approach is best. Can you do that now?

Cameron Blewett:
Thanks Tim. I think the best approach is to focus on the issues, not the person. The issues are:

A) Animal use is increasing every year B) Animal use not only exploits the non-human animal, it expliots
the workers and environment C) If we are going to win this battle, we need to

start thinking like the 'enemy' D) we are talking to people that will draw on
our infighting as indecision and weakness. To talk a little about my job, when
various unions are talking to an employer, whilst we may have different views
on things, we talk with one voice, that way it is harder for the employer to
exploit any weakness. This is something that we should all be doing. Speaking
with one voice. And I think we should be using a multi-faceted approach,
because one size does not fit all.

Tim Gier:
Thanks Cameron, the final question in this part of the chat is from Jason Ward, Jason?

Jason Ward:
Thanks Tim

Hi Cam, could you tell us what the Brisbane Vegan Meet-up entails?

Cameron Blewett:

Thanks Jason. Brisbane vegan meet-up, is really more of a little social group than anything else, just a place where we can do social things etc. And just another way to get the vegan message out

there.

Jason Ward:
Thank you kindly!

Cameron Blewett:
Thats ok.

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks so much, Cam! This concludes the formal part of Cameron's chat for today. I'd now like to open the chat up to anyone who'd like to engage Cam. Please feel free to PM myslef or Tim or Jason if you'd like to address Cam

Carolyn Bailey:
Kelly Carson would like to ask you a question Cam, go ahead Kelly

Kelly Carson:
Cam, you said "we weren’t a family of trophy hunters. What was hunted and killed was given to dogs or other family members to eat." I was raised by a hunter-trapper-fisher in northwest Canada. I

saw no excuse then, and I do not to this day.

At what point do we stop making excuses for our “forefathers” and just insist that we have been on the
wrong path all along? Animals are on

this planet for their own existence.

Cameron Blewett:
Kelly, I wasn't making any excuses for what my faimly did. I was trying to make a difference between the two. Most people think hunters have mounted heads on walls, etc. The point I

was trying to make was that I wasn't surrounded by 'stuffed' animals, etc.

Did that answer your question?

Kelly Carson:

Hunting for any reason is no longer necessary, in your view?

Cameron Blewett:

Thats right Kelly. It is not necessary nor can it be justified, regardless of what 'spin' is put on it.

Kelly Carson:

My dad used to take me hunting with him - I spoiled every shot he took. We never went hungry. :-)

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Cam and Kelly. Tim Gier would like to follow-up on an early question, go Tim

Tim Gier:

Hi again Cameron, when you talked about MDA, you said that some acts against animal exploiters might
increase their costs which would reduce supply. But in talking about welfare

reforms, you note that cost increases are ineffective as ways to combat
exploitation. Can you expound on this?

Cameron Blewett:

Thanks Tim. If industry increases the end cost, it is usually done as a justified expense. ie. all our eggs are cage free, so you have to pay more. or our animals are all organic fed
and free range, so you have to pay more.

The price increase is justified because they are doing something to reduce the cruelty conscience of
the public. Increase costs due to MDA activity would be 'hidden' because I

don't think the public would accept it quite as easily does that make sense?

Carolyn Bailey:
Tim had to step out for a bit, but I'm sure it makes sense to him, everything does! Thanks, Cam!

Carolyn Bailey:
Douglass also had a question, but had to leave unexpectedly, so asked me to ask this for him:

Mr. Blewett, Thank you for taking my question!

If I may, to give perspective to my question: for the last few years I've practiced video
advocacy with videos such as PETA's Meet Your Meat.

On being enlightened to the perspective on Vegan Abolition, I've realized numerous problematic issues with blood "and guts" advocacy of this nature.

With that said, do you believe video-based Vegan advocacy is effective, and if so, can you recommend
some videos?

Done, thanx!

Cameron Blewett:
Hi Douglass. I think that footage that is available on the internet at the moment can still work, just so long as people know that we are using it to promote veganism, and that by becoming

vegan ALL animal use and exploitation will stop.

As for what is effective. It really depends on the people that you are talking to. Earthlings works for
some, yet not others. I would try an individualised approach when talking to people;

drawing on whatever it is that you have available to you.

Roger Yates:
Thanks Cam

Carolyn Bailey:
If there are no further questions for Cam, I’d like to sincerely thank Cam for his participation today, and for his thoughtful responses to some excellent

questions.

Jason Ward:
Thanks Cameron!

Barbara DeGrande:
Thank you!

Carolyn Bailey:
ARZone sincerely thanks all participants for their contribution today.

Fifi Leigh:
Thanks

Cameron Blewett:
Thanks for having me, and the interesting questions :-)

Roger Yates:
Hey folks! Don't forget that an ARZone chat is just the beginning of a conversation. Feel free to comment on the transcript once it is published!

[Skye Brown]

Hi everyone,
I agree with what you are saying Roger and Carolyn.
I'm also vegan and work to help animals in a wide range of ways. I don't think any form of animal abuse/use should be allowed to go unnoticed or be ignored. I admire people who can work to help animals (whether being abused visibly or invisibly) whilst still keeping it within the context of the bigger picture: Animals are not ours to use.

This reminds me of an interview with G.Francione ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO8NXatlQhc ) where he describes attending a horse racing (or rodeo?) protest and was told by the organisers that he shouldn't have mentioned veganism/abolition to the media.

Come to think of it, i have talked about horse racing to the media myself, and when I began talking about the ethics of using animals in general, it was obvious the presenter wanted to wind up the conversation. But of course that shouldn't be a deterrent.

[Carolyn Bailey]

Hi Skye,

I agree with Roger, our culture is so brainwashed into thinking the speciesist activities which occur daily right in front of us are acceptable, that we often forget about these things, and choose instead to focus our energy on more visible violations.

I can't speak for Lisa, but I know she's vegan and focuses her activism on a broad range of injustices, not solely on this camel cull.

I think, rightly or wrongly, many people are outraged at this because the slaughter will take place from a helicopter. Obviously the success rate of instant death is not as high as it should be. There will be camels starve to death due to their injuries, there will be young camels starve to death due to their mother's injury or death, there will be enormous pain and terror inflicted on these camels.

The Australian Government started this cull last year, in secret. They lied to the public about it, hid most of the details from us, and were very arrogant about it.

I think acting on local issues is an excellent way to be active, but I certainly agree that vegan education is the best and most important form of activism. I do think we can do both.

[Skye Brown]

Hi Cameron,
thanks for the great interview.

I just wanted to comment on Lisa Rees question about the camel cull.
I understand that all work should ultimately focus on veganism as the only way to truly help all animals. But I can’t help imagining if I lived in a part of the country where I was directly witnessing the killing of these animals on a daily basis. I think I would personally have to act to try and stop the killing of those individuals. This could mean I would be putting less energy into ending the demand for the animals overseas.

This is hypothetical (since I don’t live close to it) - but would you (or anyone else) react differently to the killing if it was in ‘your own backyard’ so to speak?
It’s something I’m trying to get my head around so would appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks again