Transcript of Colleen Patrick-Goudreau's Live ARZone Guest Chat

[Carolyn Bailey]

Transcript of Colleen Patrick-Goudreau's ARZone Guest Chat

25 June 2011

3pm US Pacific Time

11pm UK Time and

26 June 2011

8am Australian Eastern Standard Time

 

 

Carolyn Bailey:

ARZone would like to welcome Colleen Patrick-Goudreau as our guest today.

 

For 11 years, Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, compassionate living expert and author, has guided people to becoming and staying vegan through cooking classes, award-winning cookbooks, lectures, and her popular video and audio podcasts. With passion, humour, and common sense, she empowers and inspires people to live as healthfully and compassionately as possible.

 

Raised on a typical American diet of meat, dairy, and eggs, Colleen was shocked by what she learned when she read John Robbins' Diet for a New America at 19, and she included fishes in her circle of compassion after reading Slaughterhouse by Gail Eisnitz.

 

Addressing the spiritual, social, and practical aspects of a vegan lifestyle, Colleen is the author of three cookbooks (The Joy of Vegan Baking, The Vegan Table, and Color Me Vegan) and two vegan/compassionate living books (Vegan's Daily Companion, which just came out in March 2011, and The 30-Day Vegan Challenge, due out in August 2011).

 

Determined to raise awareness about animal suffering, she founded Compassionate Cooks to be a voice for the over 45 billion land and sea animals killed every year in the U.S. alone, for human consumption. Her work is dedicated to them.

 

Colleen also produces a podcast called Vegetarian Food for Thought and produced a cooking DVD, Vegetarian Cooking with Compassionate Cooks.

 

Colleen welcomes the opportunity to speak with ARZone members today. Would you please join with me in welcoming Colleen to ARZone today?

 

Welcome, and thank you for being here, Colleen!

 

Brooke Cameron:

Hi, Colleen! Welcome!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-) Thanks, Carolyn. Greetings from California, everyone!

 

Fifi Leigh:

Hi

Sadia:

Thank you for being here Ms. Patrick-Goudreau! and absolute welcome!!

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Welcome, Colleen

 

Sky:

Hi

 

Jason Ward:

Hello Colleen WELCOME!!!

 

Tim Gier:

Hi Colleen, thanks for taking our questions!

 

Sharni Buckley:

Hi Colleen!

 

Will:

Hiya

 

Pauline McGuigan:

Hello Colleen... thanks for doing this ... and Food for Thought is amazing

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Welcome Colleen! Thanks for being here!

 

Suzanne Barker:

Welcome

 

Jesse Newman:

Hello! :-)

 

Roger Yates:

Welcome, Colleen

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thanks, Pauline. Thanks, Tim. Definitely the most thoughtful (and longest) questions I've ever received! LOL :-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Colleen will be responding to her pre-registered questions first, and then we’ll open the chat up for all members. Please refrain from interrupting Colleen during her first session, and feel free to send a private message to an admin if you wish to address her at any time.

I’d now like to ask Sharni Buckley to ask Colleen her first question. Thanks, Sharni.

 

Sharni Buckley:

Thanks! First of all, thank you for your tremendous contribution toward the vegan community. How have you been able to remain apolitical in this adversarial atmosphere of animal rights, and do you have any words of wisdom for other activists?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thank you, Sharni. That means a lot to me. To be honest, I simply have no desire to get involved in intermovement arguments and in-fighting. There is so much work to be done, and time is precious. I want to spend my time being as productive and effective as I can – not getting sidetracked by distractions. I quite literally try to fulfill my mission each day, and it’s not a bad idea for everyone to create their own personal mission statement. That way, it’s easy to stay focused on your purpose and be able to ask yourself “would getting involved in X” or whatever it is help accomplish my mission today?” If not, then leave it alone and spend your energy and time on what you think is effective. Just my opinion. And I’ve got a LOT of opinions! ☺ 

 

Sharni Buckley:

Thanks Colleen :-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks for that, Colleen! Tim Marshall would like to ask the next question. Thanks, Tim!

 

Tim Marshall:

My wife and I are pondering the ages to introduce different concepts relating to animal rights to our daughter. In discussing veganism with children, do you shield them or sanitize any of the information about what happens to animals in our non vegan world?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Hi Tim. Ya know – my focus is really on compassion, which is a language everyone at every age understands. Of course there are books and videos that are appropriate for different ages, but in terms of having a discussion, I think it’s never too soon to make it clear that the foundation of your family’s values is compassion and kindness. Then everything stems very naturally from that. A child will understand when you say “we don’t drink milk from cows, because it’s meant for her babies, and we don’t want to take milk from the babies” or when they’re a little older (and wouldn’t project their own fear of losing their own mother): “If we take her milk, that means her calf has to be separated from his mother, in which case they would both be very sad.”  The fundamental truths you tell them will remain the same as they grow; it just might be the details that increase. Does that make sense? 

 

Tim Marshall:

Thanks Colleen, it does, we will take it on board when our 11 month old girl is old enough  , Cheers !!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks again, Colleen. Brooke Cameron would like to ask the next question. Thanks, Brooke.

 

Brooke Cameron:

Thank you, Carolyn! You have authored 3 vegan cookbooks, The Joy of Vegan Baking, The Vegan Table and Color Me Vegan. Are many of the recipes in these cookbooks your own recipes, and if so, what would be your advice to other vegans who would like to learn how to cook, and how would one get started? Thanks!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Hi Brooke – many of the recipes were mine, and many were variations from old standards, particularly the recipes from The Joy of Vegan Baking. I very much wanted that book in particular to be full of familiar family favorites, so I would just dive into recipes I had learned over the years before I was vegan and change them to be vegan and delicious. I’m very serious when I say that I kinda do everything with a purpose. So, with every recipe I would create, my first question to my self would be “what is my intention here?” “What is my purpose in creating this recipe?” And because so many of my recipes were created while I was still teaching cooking classes, it was always very much about giving people what they needed so that they could go home and make exactly what I taught them to make in the classroom. I’ve heard from countless people over the years that tell me my recipes have become their staples and that so many other recipes are complicated or involved hours of  prep or require unfamiliar or inaccessible ingredients.

 

My intention in everything I do is to make it POSSIBLE and EASY for people to eat compassionately and healthfully, so that is always the intention behind my recipes. THEN, there’d be variations depending on a secondary focus. So, for instance, in Color Me Vegan, the focus was color – not for its own sake and not for novelty’s sake – but for the sake of nutrient density. So, the recipes I chose and created and worked on were always about featuring a concentration of that particular color in the CONTEXT of still making the recipe accessible and easy. (I hope I didn’t make that sound complicated.) LOL ☺

 

Brooke Cameron:

Thank you. May I ask a quick follow-up?

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Fine with me.

 

Brooke Cameron:

Your fifth book, The 30-Day Vegan Challenge: The Ultimate Guide to Eating Cleaner, Getting Leaner, and Living Compassionately, is due to be released in August, could you tell us a little about this book and what your inspiration in writing it was, please? Thanks!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thanks for asking, but before I tell you, I do have to give a shout-out to my 4th book, of which I am very proud and which was written for vegans! It’s Vegan’s Daily Companion: 365 Days of Inspiration for Living Compassionately and Healthfully, and it’s pretty unique. Each day of the week focuses on a different theme (Monday, food; Tuesday, compassionate communication; Wednesday, optimal wellness; Thursday, animals in the arts; Friday, stories of hope and rescue; and Saturday/Sunday, recipes.) It’s meant to give vegans inspiration and hope, and I thought y’all might like to know about it. ☺ As for The 30-Day Vegan Challenge, I’ve never been more excited about a book release. Five years ago, I started working on an online program – called the same thing – but just got so busy with all the books and classes and podcast and speaking engagements and wasn’t able to get to it. I finally decided it needed to be a book, and so it’s on its way. It basically asks people to just do it for 30 days, while I hold their hand and answer every question, myth, and challenge they’ve ever had about being vegan, and while I do so, I help replace their old foundation with a new one, challenging their current thought patterns and encouraging new behaviors. So for instance, one chapter is on Eating Out, one is onTraveling, one is on Reading Labels, one is on Restocking your Kitchen, one is on Iron, one on Protein, one on Calcium, one on Holidays, one on Compassionate Clothing, etc. etc. It runs the gamut, includes gorgeous photos and recipes, and is THE book that every vegan can give to anyone who’s ever said “I thought about being vegan, BUT <fill in the blank>.” It comes out on August 23rd, 2011 and Random House is the publisher, so they’re putting their publicity machine behind it, and we all feel very confident it will resonate with the mainstream. It’s available for pre-order already, and you can see the little preview video here http://vimeo.com/compassionatecooks/30dayveganchallenge

 

Brooke Cameron:

Thanks, Colleen. Sounds great!

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Colleen. Next up is our own Tim Gier. Tim, when you are ready!

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you! In your VegNews article The Rhetoric Revolution you suggest that vegans “take back” words such as “milk” and “meat”, eschewing the qualifiers “faux”, “alternative” and “substitute”. I like your suggestion. What do you think of words used in the opposite sense such as “aquaprison” or phrases such as “meat is murder, dairy is rape”?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I think using language that reflects reality is a good thing, and I choose my words very carefully in order to challenge cultural/behavioral paradigms and habits – but not to SHOCK people. I think the best way to do that is in “context.” This is a line I walk all the time, and there IS a way to do it. My goal is to get them to stand next to me against violence – not create a dichotomy of me right, you wrong. So, it’s so essential we do this in a way that attracts rather than repels. And if I say to an animal-eater, “you know that meat you’re eating amounts to murder.” Or “You eat cheese?? You know dairy is rape!” I just don’t think it’s going to endear them to my perspective. I want them on my side! But I would say something like – in a very sympathetic tone – “I’m vegan because I don’t want to contribute towards violence towards animals, and I realized there was no way to do that while eating them – or their fluids.” (Note how effective it is to speak in first person. It accomplishes so much. I’m telling MY story – not judging them, and as I do so, I reveal that I, too, once ate animals and their milk and eggs.) I very openly talk about how offended I am by the exploitation of the female reproductive system (and the manipulation of the male reproductive system), and people get it. I absolutely talk about how the dairy industry uses the term “rape rack.” So you see, I absolutely encourage the use of language that doesn’t mask the truth – but in a way that draws people in rather than repel them. 

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you, I listened recently to a podcast of yours in which you explained how you dealt with a "hunt" that went on right next to a sanctuary. I found your advice spot-on. So, thank you for that too.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thank you, Tim!

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Colleen. Maynard S. Clark would like to ask the next question, pleae go ahead, Maynard.

 

Maynard S. Clark:

What ideas do you have for marketing vegan restaurants, culinary education, and nutritional consulting to the general public so that vegans with those skills can earn some money by promoting plant-based diets in the food areas?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Hi Maynard! After teaching classes for so many years, I know the value of people seeing in person what it takes to easily turn gorgeous plant foods into delicious, satisfying recipes and to guiding people in doing it healthfully. I think restaurants AND individuals want help in this arena, and activists, chefs, authors, cooking instructors, etc. have a valuable service they can offer to those groups. It's a matter of being creative, confident, hard-working, consistent, and professional. That's a big question, so I'm not sure if my answer really helped. :-)

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Thank you, Colleen.  Then local groups are in the events management business, not the institutional education business

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks Colleen - Maynard has a 2nd question later. Next up is Barbara DeGrande...

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thanks Roger! I so appreciate your approach to those who are yet unconvinced about the need for veganism.  Maintaining a compassionate attitude towards those who are still trapped in speciesist thinking seems an important and often overlooked concept. Do you have any suggestions to those of us dialoguing with activists who use derogatory terms for other activists or non-vegans?

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thank you, Barbara. I think the most important piece of advice I can give is to “remember your story.” It’s only when we forget that we, too, were once unaware or were, as you said “trapped in speciesist thinking” that we become arrogant and judgmental. If we stay humble and remember that we had our own journey, I think it is key to having open and effective dialogues with people. I genuinely believe that people are good and want to do the right thing, and it’s that perception I approach every person I meet with. I don’t believe people wake up each morning trying to figure out how they can be as cruel as possible. But I do believe people wake up every morning FORGETTING to focus on how they can be as compassionate as possible. If that’s what we speak to – their compassion – then I believe that’s what will be triggered: compassion. 

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you so much Colleen! This is a good reminder for all of us.

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks Colleen - next up is Carolyn Bailey....

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Roger, appreciate that! Hi Colleen!  In your YouTube video titled “Who are Slaughterhouse Workers” [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKs11CxcWo&feature=player_embed...] you opine that most slaughterhouse workers are not evil, many are humans who have been stripped of compassion (like most of us) many are illegal immigrants and many of these people have no rights and are also exploited. You suggest that we should also realise that we’re complicit in the violence inflicted on other animals in any slaughterhouse if we’re paying for the products produced there.

 

How do you respond to those who believe that the slaughterhouse workers are the reason so many animals are tortured in many abattoirs, to the fact that many people believe these workers enjoy doing so, and to the hatred projected toward these people?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Well, let me clarify: I, too, believe that the slaughterhouse workers are the reason so many animals are tortured and that many of them enjoy it. But my point is we need to understand what makes it possible for them to hurt animals with no remorse. They’re not evil; they’re desensitized, and changing our perception of them means we change our response to them (both tacitly and directly). If I believed they were cold automatons, then there’d be no hope. Perceiving the killers as human rather than monstrous also means that we can speak to the very real potential for any of us to become desensitized – whether we’re eating animals, paying someone to kill animals, killing animals in industrialized slaughterhouses, or killing animals in our backyards.The issue of animal slaughter is as much a human issue as it is an animal issue. Through slaughter, we create a culture of violence that most people say they’re opposed to. And it’s on that very real point that we can find common ground with people – not on modern methods of cruelty but on the violence inherent in killing animals.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks for your insight, Colleen! Alex Melonas has a very long question next, which Barbara DeGrande will ask in his absence. Thanks, Barb.

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Carolyn. There are two (ideal type) forms of activism: "soft" and "hard." "Soft" activism seems less directly focused on changing behavior; it seems to aim, rather, at expanding the range of viable options that could be chosen, e.g. tasty vegan food This is right brain focused, triggering feelings, emotion, etc. "Hard" activism, by contrast, is explicitly goal directed: to challenge the reasons for behaving in some way. This is, let's say, rule focused, emphasizing logical calculation (left brain). Ultimately, both forms of activism are useful. But I hesitate NOT to evaluate the latter, "hard" form of activism, as a better tool of ours than the former, "soft" form of activism.

 

It seems to me that the consequences of actively taking-up the anti-speciesist position are (potentially) greater than not doing so because of the damage to personal relationships, social hostility, some loss of convenience, challenges to one's history -- in short, in a fiercely speciesist society, going vegan may make one's  personal narrative quite unintelligible. Of course there are benefits to going vegan too, a wider range of viable food options (instead of dry habit), for instance, but most importantly, assuaging the guilt (or dissonance) of knowing you are doing the wrong thing by not going vegan. But without appealing to ethics, emphasizing duties (versus, say, emotive appeals or "care"), it doesn't seem to me that our activism can ultimately affect change. That is, because going vegan is a function of personal force (you make the decision to do so despite...), by contrast to legal, political or societal force, our activism must emphasize

a) that you are in violation of an ethical obligation if you don't go vegan and

b) being ethical is important.

 

We need to compel change as best we can by setting-up the problem as follows: if you don't go vegan, you are hurting yourself because YOU WANT to be an ethical person. This way we avoid strictly emotional appeals, which often can be fleeting and sometimes collapse into a kind of relativism ("personal choice"). How can excellent forms of "soft" activism, like your own, be usefully combined with "hard" activism in a way that takes notice of this need for ethical obligation?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Oh. My. Word. That was the longest question I've ever received. I have no answer. LOL - I'm teeeeeasing. Phew.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Hah!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Seriously, though, I’m not really sure I entirely understand your question, but I do think all forms of activism are important. I do think, however, that over the years even vegan activists have kept the bar low, not really giving people the tools and resources they need to make a long-lasting change. All I can say is that the approach I’ve been using seems to be effective, and it combines all forms of activism: challenging our societal and personal speciesist paradigm while giving people what they need to create a new non-speciesist paradigm with confidence and joy.

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Colleen!

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Colleen, and Barb! Roger Yates would like to ask a question now, thanks, Roger

 

Roger Yates:

First, many thanks for giving Vegan Ireland permission to embed your podcast clip about your recent trip to Ireland on their website: http://veganireland.org/eating-out-reviews.php Second, and related to that podcast and the issue of how easy or hard it is to be vegan in the 21st century, did you get the impression that there is a marked difference in terms of living vegan in rural Ireland compared to the major cities? I went vegan in 1979, so the idea that veganism is hard in 2011 is a bit weird for me - but what’s your take on this issue that has created a good deal of discussion in the animal advocacy movement in recent years?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I agree. It’s kinda funny to me because vegan food consists of all the plant foods that have been around for centuries. So, being vegan at home should always have been easy. I guess it’s eating out that has changed – chefs are more creative than they were in the past, because in the past (and still now), meat was the symbol of affluence and so if you’re going to go out to a restaurant, chefs are going to focus on that and center the meal around the meat. So they neglected plant foods as the main dish. I think that’s where things are changing – chefs are learning that plant foods make beautiful, delicious main dishes, and you can be so much more creative with them. I think also people eat sooooo much crap these days – so much processed junk, and so I supposed being vegan now is “easier” in the sense that people can now have access to a lot of vegan junk food. I think it’s novel that I can find vegan marshmallows for hot chocolate, but I was fine living without marshmallows. We live in a culture that values convenience above everything else, so I guess people find it “easier” to be vegan if it means they can still eat crap while being vegan. ☺ 

 

Roger Yates:

A quick follow-up comment/question, please? :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Sure

 

Roger Yates:

Interesting what you say about vegan junk food. I guess ~culturally~ it is important that we show that vegan junk food exists and then, as you say, it becomes a matter of balance. It makes one wonder, doesn’t it, about the importance of vegan options in fast food outlets, accepting that the politics of that is very controversial.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Absolutely. :-)

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks Colleen - next up is Luna Hughes....

 

Luna Hughes:

You seem to be genuinely happy. How is that possible with the knowledge that so many animals are suffering in such incredibly devastating ways? Most activists need to learn your secret!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

That’s very sweet, Luna. I am genuinely happy, and I do live daily with the knowledge that animals are suffering greatly every day. But that’s not what I dwell on. I’m a very solution-oriented person, so instead of immersing myself in the problem, I immerse myself in the solution, and in doing so, I’m constantly surrounded by hope. Every time we speak up for animals and act on behalf of justice and on behalf of truth, we are part of hope.

 

I believe the creation of the compassionate world we want starts with our thoughts. If we believe that injustice and violence will prevail, then all I can say is I don’t share those thoughts, and those fatalistic thoughts compete with the hopeful thoughts that justice and compassion will prevail. It is because of this hope, because of the transformations I witness every day, that I remain a joyful vegan.In any given moment, I can choose this perspective or I can choose despair or fear or compromise. But I choose hope.

 

Luna Hughes:

Thanks :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-)

 

Roger Yates:

Next up is Tim Gier - Tim....

 

Tim Gier:

In your Nov 2010 interview in the Oregonian, you talk about being vegan in terms of compassion and joy. Much of your published work is about food. I take it then that you believe that the way to reach most people is to connect with the values they already have. Do you think advocates and activists risk over-emphasizing the philosophical arguments and focus too much on the horrific imagery of suffering?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Hi Tim - Only some of my work is focused on food; the rest is focused on language, ethics, communication, psychology, history, justice, literature, and film and how our perception of and treatment of animals plays into all of these things. But I do agree that I think the way to reach people is to connect with the values they already have. I think that’s key. I always say that I’m not asking people to live according to MY values; I’m urging people to live according to THEIRS. It’s a very important distinction to make. It’s hard for me to say if other activists/advocates are doing something wrong; all I can say is what I know works for me.

 

But I also know that vegan and animal advocacy has been around for a long time, and yet the number of people who identify as vegans hasn’t really increased that much over the last several decades. I don’t think it’s because people aren’t moved by the arguments. I find that most are. I do think one of the things that has been lacking all of these years is a lack of understanding how much people need to be guided to live in a society that doesn’t support living compassionately and healthfully. The documented evidence of animal abuse (especially in video and photos) is clear and convincing, but once their memory of the brutal images fades and they aren’t standing on firm ground, they falter and return to contributing to animal abuse.

 

All I can say is that based on the response I’ve had to my work, my manifold approach seems to work. I speak on behalf of animals unapologetically - showing images and telling their stories, I keep the bar high and assume people will rise to meet it, and I then give them the tools and resources they need to become and STAY vegan healthfully, joyfully, confidently, and deliciously. Basically my approach has been both mind and behavior modification. Both – not one or the other.

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you, may I ask a follow-up?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Sure - I promise I'll keep my answer short! I'm not good at that!

 

Tim Gier:

Thanks, from what you've said, you make it clear to people that veganism is what you advocate for. But, you recognize that even after you have presented the arguments - and the evidence of the abject cruelty - you still have to provide ways for people to make incremental changes in their lives. Is that right?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Yes. People are moved by the "why," but they lack the "how" because of the society we live in. I give them both - the why AND the how.

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Surely

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, again, Colleen! Jesse Newman would like to ask a question now, thanks, Jesse

 

Jesse Newman:

Would you please share any advice you might have for divorced parents, one of which is committed to raising their children as vegetarian, the other who is not? The kids are both under the age of 8.  :-(

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Aw - I don't like to see that sad face. :-(

I know that can be really difficult, but I think communication, communication, communication is key – both in terms of communicating with your ex-partner but also with your children. They will understand that they will eat vegetarian with one parent, and as long as that parent continues to be open and honest (as I said above), then the child will have more values to contemplate and live by. All we can do is tell the truth and be a guide. 

 

Jesse Newman:

Thank you. It really bugs me when people say “it’s easy to be veg” because it would be a lot easier for my kids for me to just give in and “be normal” like everyone around me.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I talk about it in the 30-Day Vegan Challenge and in my podcast. Normal. Tish!

 

Jesse Newman:

I don't mean you Colleen, other people! Thank you!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

What the heck is that anyway! Conformity, status quo, lackluster, boring, yawn. :-) I know what you mean. ;-)

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks Jesse and Colleen. The next question cames from Barbara DeGrande

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Roger! How do you maintain a healthy perspective and balance in light of your continued success?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Well, I may have already answered that above – in terms of focusing on the hope I see rather than the despair. And it is my very success (which I measure by the number of people becoming awake to their own compassion through my work) that keeps me healthy. ☺ The emails I receive every day feed me. Although I struggle with finding balance so that I don’t burn out (I’m a bit of a workaholic), I do have many other passions that help me find that balance. My husband and I are film and literature junkies, and I run and hike every day of the week. We live a very quiet life, and that all definitely keeps me sane. ☺

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Colleen. I appreciate your definition of success!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Colleen. Maynard S. Clark has another question now. Please go ahead, Maynard!

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Colleen, I’m interested in developing the HOW to enable ‘doers’ to be on the right side.  So, here comes that business question again, about developing a successful business plan for veganizing conventional restaurants and employing competent but underemployed vegan dietitians, nutrition educators, et al. In the United States and Canada, quite a few vegan dietitians, culinary folks, and nutrition educators are un(der)employed. What do you think of this idea – which would end up supporting vegetarian food in nonvegetarian restaurants AND likely provide revenue to some trained members of our community, yet give valuable content to our local groups? You, someone like you, local vegan groups, OR some overarching group (NAVS in USA – unlikely, maybe VegSource) sets up a business template for these underemployed vegans to 'veganize' local menus by substituting common foods acceptable to vegans (not nothing fancy) for offending ingredients in items. A flat fee would be charged to the eateries for veganizing their entire menu. The veganized version of the menu (or as much of the menu as is 'do-able' ‘veganize-able') is made available to the owner when the payment is exchanged,  and their restaurant is listed on a website of friendly places for vegans and vegetarians to dine (perhaps on local vegetarian group sites, also, maybe VegDining, HappyCow, or any site that wants it).

 

Perhaps it coordinates with Meatless Monday for restaurants to have these options readily available for ‘new business’ they hadn’t previously tapped That site also promotes the local vegetarian or vegan groups, with membership clickthrough links. All-vegan restaurants are also listed for free, but otherwise, only restaurants that pay a fee can be listed there. I’d think that could be the sort of template someone like YOU could develop under your name and prestigious umbrella.  You know so many with deep culinary interests – the sorts of underemployed vegan foodies who could work expertly in such a business.

 

The idea focuses on veganizing nonvegetarian restaurants, then making money from side aspects of that while promoting. With all you do, though, I don’t see how you’d find time to grow such a business that could span not one continent, but many continents. But a major org could take it on if it were fleshed out. Each menu is a significant project - converting meat-based items to vegan items  - why they need to be paid. 

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I think it’s FABULOUS! One of my most recent podcast episodes was on Restaurant Outreach, and I said I wish I had more time to devote to this but encouraged people to get involved in this way because it doesn’t take very much time.

Absolutely - I cannot do it, but I think it's an undertapped area. I would say Compassion Over Killing is doing some impressive work in restaurant outreach, but the kind for formal thing you're talking about is brilliant. NOW GO BUILD IT! :-)

Absolutely - Restaurants and caterers are interested in adding more and more vegan items these days because it’s a good business decision, so I think it’s a great idea.

 

Maynard S. Clark:

If I weren't already working

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I hear ya. :-)

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Thx

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thank you!

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks Maynard and Colleen - next is the mighty Tim Gier

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Mighty, huh?

 

Roger Yates:

Mouse

 

Tim Gier:

We have dedicate tonight’s chat to the Spanish 12 – activists for other animals arrested in Spain. They have been labeled as “eco-terrorists” because of their alleged connection to the release of about 16,000 minks in 2007. What is your opinion on direct action in the form of open rescue? Also, what do you make of the terms like “eco-terrorist” being used increasing in reference to advocates and activists?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

The opposition will always use language to undermine and criminalize animal activists, so it doesn’t surprise me in the least. What I do find interesting, though, is when you talk to John or Joan Q about what the government(s) constitute “eco-terrorism,” they’re appalled right away and very sympathetic to the activists. I think every form of activism has its place in the movement. What appeals to one person will not appeal to another – both in terms of public response as well as activist involvement. Open rescue isn’t where my talent lies, but I’m in awe of the courageous people who participate. I think they’re unsung heroes.

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you. I agree with you  

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Colleen. For the last question in today's formal session I'd like to ask a question from Kate, who is busy transcribing this chat. If there are any further questions for Colleen, please send a message to either myself, Roger or Barbara. Kate's question: Hi. Thanks for being here. My question is this. In situations where humans can intervene in nature to help free-living nonhuman animals, if we can be reasonably confident of not causing any extra harm, do you think we should try to help? Or do you think it would be better to just “let them be” as some animal rights advocates suggest we should?

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

If you’re referring to nature shows where people film animals suffering and not intervening, I could never do that. If I saw an animal suffering, every ounce of my being would want to intervene. But I also understand letting nature take its course and not interfering with the balance its always striving to achieve. However, in the situation where carnivores such as large cats are kept in confinement/zoos necessitating the killing of prey animals just to keep them alive? No I don’t agree with that. I'm not really sure I answered your question, but there you have it. :-)

PHEW!!!!!! I've never been this exhausted after a chat! I need some kale!

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks Colleen! And thanks very much for your insightful and helpful replies to these great questions. Jordan Wyatt would like to ask the first of the open session questions, Colleen. All yours, Jordan!

 

Jordan Wyatt:

Hi Colleen and thank you very much for your podcast, and your time today :-) I'm only a recent Vegan, I like to challenge the terms we commonly use without thought, and not use them myself.  I don't like saying "meat", or "leather", preferring "flesh" and "skin".  To believe we are "above" other animals, that an "animal" is less than human, that we are NOT animals :-)

 

I'm lucky enough to know a family of Chickens, I call them my "Chicken Friends", as I want others to know I DON’T want them to be "my property", they are not things but sentient beings!  They are my friends. I'm crazy enough to have started my own VERY SMALL"Vegan Society" :-)http://www.invsoc.org.nz/ I think a clear Vegan message is very important for helping others, and that positive language (with lots of videos of Chicken Friends!) helps create more Vegans.

 

Words themselves do not hurt you, ie "Jordan, you're an idiot!", OUCH! :-)  Believing it acceptable to kill >56 Billion other animals each year, >49 Billion of those Chickens for our pleasure/tradition and keeping the words meaning, continuing their use promotes harm.

 

Colleen, do you think its good to politely challenge daily terms Non Vegans use, such as calling other animals "it"?  To not say "meat", or to call the dead body of one of my little friends "Chicken"? I think those terms are worse than the most heinous swearword! Thank you very much for giving me your time :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Absolutely! Have you listened to any of my podcasts on this? I think one is called The Language of Meat

 

Jordan Wyatt:

Yes I have thank you! I'm a huge fan :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

One is Compassionate Cliches (also in Vegan's Daily Companion) Yeah - I think we should challenge it all the time.

 

Jordan Wyatt:

Thank you :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

BUT as I said earlier - not in a way that challenges the other person - only their language. I don't want to push people away, so guiding them into different language is important - but not being judgemental. After all, I used to say "kill two birds with one stone and didn't realize what I was saying. When people say that now in front of me, I smile and say "you mean cut two carrots with one knife"? and they totally love it and get it.  :-) hee hee

 

Richard McMahan:

Thanks Colleen

 

Roger Yates:

OK - the second open question comes from Daria Zeoli...

 

Daria Zeoli:

Hi Colleen. I hope I get to thank you in person for the impact you've had on me at NAVS Summerfest next month. :-) My question is about parents.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

(Hope to see you there, Daria!) Ah, parents.

 

Daria Zeoli:

My mother is fond of saying "I could never go vegan. Maybe vegetarian... but your dad won’t go for it." How would you (or have you) responded to such an excuse from your parents? (Who, by the way, loved the meal I cooked last Christmas Eve with YOUR recipes! :-) )

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Again, don't kill me for saying this, but The 30-Day Vegan Challenge talks about this, too :-)

(Thank you!) :-)

 

Daria Zeoli:

I was hoping you’d say that, actually! :-) Assuming I can make her read it!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

So honestly, one of the things vegans will be able to do now is say "how about trying the 30-Day Vegan Challenge"? - just give it a try. so that's one thing. But I usually say to people who say that "Never say never" and just encourage them to do something you’ve probably heard me say "Don't Do Nothing because you can't do everything. Do something. Anything." So ask your pops or mom where they'd be willing to start (cutting out chickens, etc.), and say great - start there. Know what I mean?

 

Daria Zeoli:

I do. And I use that quote. So thank you! :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Thanks, Colleen! Tim Gier would like to ask another question now, thanks, Tim.

Tim Gier:

Given all you've said about challenging the language but not the person, what do you make of all the strife and dissent within the movement? Sometimes I feel as though I get as much grief from other vegans as I do fromg non-vegans.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

LIke what, Tim? Ya know..

 

Tim Gier:

For instance, if I post something on Facebook pointing out that a non-vegan fast food restaurant now has a vegan option, I get told that I am promoting exploitation

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

i don't have to defend myself to anyone or explain why i do or don't do something. That's their opinion. We're not one collective mind.

 

Tim Gier:

Some people think we should be!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

We're a huge huge movement of individuals with our own creativity and unique contribution.

 

Tim Gier:

:-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Well, that's on them. I don't agree. One thing I've learned is that people aren't comfortable with "I don't know." They want you to pick sides. In other words - I'm glad they're soooooo 100% confident that they have all the answers. Good for them. I wouldn't presume as much about myself. All I know is what works for me and that it's not a perfect world. I can only do my best and encourage others to do the same. That alone would make a huge difference, because the bar right now is so low. But the other ends of the bar can't be perfection. So anyway, babble babble. :-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:
That's so true, Colleen!

 

Tim Gier:

Thank you, that was much more than "babble-babble" -- :-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Oh, I didn't mean the "babble babble" part was true! :-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

I'm glad. oh i know Carolyn! :-)

 

Tim Gier:

me too!

 

Carolyn Bailey:

:-)

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

No need to explain :-)

 

Carolyn Bailey:

I'd like to thank you, Colleen, sincerely for being here with us today and being so generous with your time. ARZone really does very much appreciate it!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

My pleasure. Thank you all for being voices for the animals! I'm grateful to be in such company.

 

Jason Ward:

Thanks Colleen

 

Roger Yates:

Thanks for your time, Colleen.

 

Doug Hines:

Love you Colleen! :-)

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Thank you very much, Colleen.

 

Barbara DeGrande:

Thank you Colleen. It was a pleasure!

 

Sky:

Byeeeeee

 

Brooke Cameron:

Thanks, Colleen! You've been awesome, as usual!

 

Jesse Newman:

Yes, thank you for the good advice

 

Will:

Thanks

 

Maynard S. Clark:

WOW - off early tonight

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Aw - thanks, Doug. Thanks everyone. Have a good day/night/morning. :-) Thanks, Brooke and Jesse.

 

Richard McMahan:

Thanks!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

EARLY?

 

Sharni Buckley:

Thanks for your time and your amazing words, Colleen!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

We've been on for 2 hours!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

LOL - Thanks, Sharni!

 

Sky:

Maynard needs his beauty sleep

 

Maynard S. Clark:

Need to budget the time - yes, at my advanced age

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-) 

 

Mangus O’Shales:

Sometimes people don't talk as clearly as you do, and they go on for hours. Thank you for being so real.

 

Jordan Wyatt:

Thank you very much for your time Colleen, thank you for your show!  Thank you from perhaps your southernmost listener in the world!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

:-) Thanks, Mangus. 2 hours is my limit. I'm beat! I'm seriously going to pick some kale right now.

 

Jordan Wyatt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invercargill

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Thanks, Jordan!! Where are you?

 

Sadia:

Thank you so very much indeed :-) it has been a delicious evening.

 

Carolyn Bailey:

Enjoy, Colleen! And thanks again!

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

Wow!

 

Mangus O’Shales:

:-)

 

Roger Yates:

Yes, ARZone members will be doing themselves a big favour subscribing to Colleen's podcast on itunes.

 

Colleen Patrick-Goudreau:

OK thanks, everyone!! Check out http://www.compassionatecooks.com/ anytime! For the animals.....

 

Colleen's Podcast may be found here:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/VegetarianFoodForThought

 

 

-------

 

 

ARZone exists to promote rational discussion about our relations with other animals and about issues within the animal advocacy movement. Please continue the debate after a chat by starting a forum discussion or by making a point under a transcript.

 

[Billy L]

That's a great idea Bonnie, about the Dr. Oz show.

[erin greer]

Vegetarian Food for Thought was the first podcast I ever listened to so I blame Colleen for my podcast addiction, lol! Seriously though she is just an amazingly warm, thoughtful, and articulate voice for the animals. Thanks for interviewing her :).

[Bonnie]

Colleen is one of the most brilliant women on the planet. Every time I read a quote or interview, or listen to a podcast, I learn something new, and I learn about being a better advocate for animals. Thank you for this extensive interview. Don't you just wish she'd get a regular role on Dr. Oz or some other mainstream show where she could teach compassion and awaken the whole world?

 

[Carolyn Bailey]

I asked Colleen about slaughterhouse workers during her chat, after watching a video of Colleen talking about this topic [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmKs11CxcWo&feature=player_embed...]. 

Colleen made some points in this video, including stating that most slaughterhouse workers are not monsters, they're humans who have also been abused, have no rights themselves and have been/are being exploited. I think these were excellent points, and very important. I also think that until we can understand this, and be willing to address this exploitation, we shouldn't expect any significant changes. 

Colleen said, in her reply:

"The issue of animal slaughter is as much a human issue as it is an animal issue. Through slaughter, we create a culture of violence that most people say they’re opposed to. And it’s on that very real point that we can find common ground with people – not on modern methods of cruelty but on the violence inherent in killing animals."

Colleen made some great points during her chat, but I particularly appreciated her comments on this important issue. 

[Tim Gier]

I very much appreciate Colleen's positive approach, both in terms of how she conducts herself and communicates and, as important, how she focuses on what she is able to do, in the way she is able to do it. I mentioned in the chat that I was particularly impressed with Colleen's recounting of her interactions with some hunters. Here is the link, please give it a listen http://hw.libsyn.com/p/a/b/7/ab7e5d84de3e6352/talking_to_hunter.mp3...