How do *you* talk with ordinary people about veganism?

[Billy L]

As the title suggests, I'm wondering what others say to people (omnivorous, mostly unaware of animal rights concepts) they meet one-on-one.

I find myself bringing my veganism up when the inevitable topic of food arises, not wanting to downplay it as vegetarianism, or avoiding dairy, etc. but rather to assert the ethical reasons for my choice.

It seems much easier to compose an argument on a forum or facebook, because you can reference articles or websites that give in-depth information to back up your claims. But in a unplanned live context, with no aids like pamphlets or videos, only your memory and conversation skills, where do *you* start?

How do you introduce the idea of animal rights and the reason that you are vegan to folks like the ones I mentioned? Do you have a "canned" speech or mental list of talking points that you have found to be effective?

What are some counterarguments or objections that stumped you and how did you either overcome them or what did you learn for the next time?

[Billy L]

Why is it that people think they have to MIMIC food items that they really WANT to give up—like meat patties, butter, eggs, cheese, sausage, yogurt, or whatever? Why not just give them up and eat something ELSE? Are people so habituated that they must resort to food mimicry?

I figure I've eaten how I've eaten for my entire life. Would I love to stay home and cook food from another culture? Sure. It's interesting to me that these kind of thoughts probably never cross the mind of billions of people in the world, they simply eat the food of their culture their entire lives (as opposed to making Italian food one night, then Japanese the next, and so on).

In my case I use occasional items like mock meat Tofurky on my Subway deli sandwich simply to add a bit of sustenance. I sometimes get all vegetables, but it's a little on the light side that way. I work long manual labor graveyard shifts, and my workplace is not entirely remote, but not exactly urban either.

There's a vegetarian restaurant that I frequent in the Bay Area, CA. It's a 95% vegan establishment - they use cream in their Thai Iced Tea unless you order it vegan, there is a dairy ingredient in one of the dishes, etc. The most interesting item on the menu is the drumsticks (talk about using language to be able to ignore what something really is), which have a wood center, an anatomically shaped seitan meat portion and a battered outer layer (I can't bring myself to call it skin). I had to try it once, and it was very strange, since I couldn't help but think about the concept of the dish the whole time I ate it. It did make me wonder the same type of questions aloud to my dinner guest.

[Billy L]

I would add that Dino has been very inspirational to me, since I have been trying to come up with a way to convince people that vegan food is easy to make anywhere. The fact that he avoids all of the fake animal products, and the hard to find items like nutritional yeast, make the recipes accessible to anyone that has access to rice, beans, grains, fruit and vegetables.

I was talking with the woman that runs my favorite restaurant in Stockton. She is a Vietnamese Buddhist vegetarian. She cooks lots of meat dishes, but is careful with the vegetarian items. I found out where she gets her produce and now am going to be able to buy fresh food much more frequently. More and more the fake meat and cheese will be reduced from my diet, as I coordinate cooking with recipes like Dino's and the ones on this blog: http://melomeals.blogspot.com/

[veganpilotmarty]

First:  Old codger?

 

Second: Which leaflets do you carry around and stealthily leave around?  

 

Interesting that you mention wearing vegan slogans on some days and not others.  I also have a criteria, somewhere subconsciously, when I don't think it's right or favorable to wear a Vegan Police or Vegan shirt.  Depends where I am, what I'm going to do, and yes you hit the nail on the head, how I feel.

 

The bottom line is that every encounter is different, fluid.  It does depend where and who you're talking to and how the conversation started.  "You eat healthy" is very different than, "I could never give up cheese."

Mostly what I try to do is plant a seed.  Later someone or something else might splash some water on it.

 

[Jeannie Habbal]

In response to your quote:

"Why is it that people think they have to MIMIC food items that they really WANT to give up—like meat patties, butter, eggs, cheese, sausage, yogurt, or whatever? Why not just give them up and eat something ELSE? Are people so habituated that they must resort to food mimicry?"

....in a word?      Yes.

That is a valid point.  Many people *are* habituated and feel most comfortable when they resort to food mimicry.   

It is part of the journey that many of us take on the road to pure veganism. If it works for the person doing it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lisa V]

I've been vegan for four years now. Not all that long. And before than, I wasn't vegan. So, I try to remember how I felt then and what I would have responded to. I also try to remember that I wasn't a heartless animal abuser when I wasn't vegan ... I just didn't yet understand. So, I don't always succeed, but I usually try to not be too judgmental and not be too harsh in how I talk about it. I do try to have basic facts handy and to have them from many different areas ... animal rights, environmental, human health, human rights, etc. I try to present the whole picture ... and that there is absolutely no downside. I also try to have good, simple, and succinct answers to those common questions like "where do you get protein?" and "but aren't plants alive, too?"

 

I'm really, really happy to be vegan. I think it's not just good for animals, I also think it's good for humans and the planet. So, rather than try to get others to NOT do something, I try to present it as something so cool I want to share it with them. You know, positive rather than negative :)

[Dino Sarma]

:Blush: That's an incredibly sweet thing to say, Billy. I'm so glad that I've been able to help you in eating a more whole foods diet. You know where to find me if you ever have any questions!

[veganpilotmarty]

I totally agree.  I traveled an interesting road but first I went veg for health reasons so yes, I absolutely wanted/needed that fake bacon double cheeseburger without all the animal substances present.  I needed easy, quick and familiar.

Now I want a burger that is animal and cruelty free but made with grains and beans and actually IS a bit healthier than what I can buy premade.

It's a journey for others too and I can't see the sense of the argument that you should give up seitan on a stick because it looks like a chicken wing.  Well, it really doesn't unless you see suffering in every conical shaped thing and its actually not a chicken wing.

[Billy L]

That's a profound point - don't approach it as trying to get people to NOT do something... This will help in a fundamental way, thanks Lisa.

Don't forget where you came from indeed, I try to analyze every situation through that lens. That's a great challenge to have an "elevator pitch" for the most common objections or to cover the many angles of the upsides of veganism, but in a way that's inviting them to join in on the benefits... I love this idea!

[Billy L]

Thanks for the kind words Barbara, I won't pretend that it's easy to keep cool when such emotional issues arise, but it is worth the effort for sure.

Thanks for sharing all of these ideas. I like that Peaceful Prairie flyer http://www.peacefulprairie.org/outreach/grievingMother.html - I should do the same, and sneak some into unexpected places... or simply give them to some people I have been communicating with, that haven't yet gone vegan.

I couldn't agree more about family. I'll just leave it at that. :)

[Michael Sizer-Watt]

In a recent Vlog of mine I spoke to a couple of sea shepherd members about that and they both said "know your facts" and "be nice". I agree with them %100.

 

I find letting them give me thier objections first and then presenting simple answers best, rather than pushing it on them. They of course almost always say "food chain" or "it's my right to feed myself" or "you kill plants when you eat". Of course we know why those are fallacious, and I politely point out the flaws in their logic.

 

Cheers. :)

[Billy L]

Thanks Michael,

Agreed 100%

Interesting timing, since I'm using that exact strategy this time around with the new coworker I am with every night. Just some calm, hopefully well-timed facts.

He brought up shark fin soup, since we were talking about Thanksgiving, which led to a discussion about other meals. I asked him if he knew how they get the fins, and explained when he said no. He said he thought that they used the whole shark. I didn't harangue him on the topic of the property paradigm, speciesism, or use-over-treatment distinctions, I left it at that simple fact.

[Dino Sarma]

Michael, I'm totally on board with you. Of course one should know the facts. Else, you seem like you haven't done your homework, and are doing something faddy. Meanwhile, "be nice" is a VERY important piece of advice. It's through our compassion for other beings that we became vegan in the first place. Must remember that humans are other beings too!