Which chat did this person witness?

[Tim Gier]

Corey Wrenn wrote a "critique" of ARZone based on her viewing of Peter Young's ARZone chat. 

http://www.examiner.com/vegan-in-roanoke/animal-rights-zone-promoti...

 

She writes:

 

"...the site is nothing more than just another welfarist organization that serves to confuse participants and detract from veganism and ending non-human animal use"

 

and

 

"It’s a place where animal rights celebrities can come in to receive a collective pat on the back.  And, it’s a place for advocates to soak in the celebrity sunshine and ignorantly accept welfarist or violent mantra in an atmosphere the stifles critical thinking".

 

I'd love to hear the opinions of ARZone's members about this. Is Wrenn correct about what ARZone is and do you all think of yourself as "ignorantly" accepting anything? 

[Carolyn Bailey]

I completely agree with you, Lisa.

I also wanted to thank you for your kind words and support, here and elsewhere. It's very much appreciated. 

I allowed myself to be drawn into making comments elsewhere on this topic, and I now deeply regret doing so. Unfortunately, I find it difficult to ignore their bullying and intimidation, as was the case again surrounding this article. I hope the next time (and there will certainly be a next time) they attack ARZone I'm able to rise above their hatred and lies.

 

 

[Tim Gier]

I agree with you too Lisa. The idea that Corey and others seem to have is that the "dominant" viewpoint in the animal movement is a destructive and evil one, and that no one should give them the space to air their views. Leaving aside the question of which views ARZone guests actually represent, Corey's position is a ridiculous one. Ideas are nothing to be afraid of, and neither are conversations with those whom we might disagree the most.

[Tim Gier]

Carolyn, I understand the regrets you have, and I have regretted somewhat the exchanges I've had with that crowd too. Still, there's something to be said for standing up to a bully and responding to slander.

[pauline mcguigan]

Tim, totally with you.

 

[Alan O'Reilly]

I want to say only one thing on this topic.

 

Please don’t tar everyone who ascribes to the Francione view of abolitionism and/or is a member of the Abolitionist Approach forum with the same brush. Most of the mudslinging appears to be resulting from some sort of history between a few individuals.

 

As a new vegan, I’m hungry for information so I can be a big boy and make up my own mind and I get that from both forums in equal measure. I’m not interested in sticking labels on anyone and I certainly don’t want to be put in the position of having to take sides.

 

As far as I’m concerned, both forums do exactly what it says on the tin and I’m grateful for that.

[Tim Gier]

Hi Alan,

You are right, of course, and most people who accept some or most of Francione's views should not be held accountable for the actions of a few.

In what is perhaps the most ironic part of all this is that I know for a fact that some members of ARZone's admin team, and I'd wager a plurality (if not a majority) of ARZone members themselves, accept, endorse and promote the major ideas contained in Francione's work.

[Alan O'Reilly]

Perhaps everyone should get together and have a big abolitionist hug!

[Tim Gier]

a vegan Kumbaya :)

[Alan O'Reilly]

Hehehe! :)

[Carolyn Bailey]

Hi Alan!

Thanks for commenting on this topic. I agree with you. 

I too appreciate much of the work Gary has done in the past, particularly his work in regard to veganism being the moral baseline. I learnt a lot of what I know today about abolitionism and animal rights from Gary. 

When I refer to Francionists, I mean only that small minority of people who appear to blindly follow Gary without question and reject all other theorists and ideas based simply on what seems to me to be Gary's say-so. 

I think it's healthy, and, in fact necessary, to ask critical questions of ourselves and of others. I also think that when we believe we have all the answers and no longer need to learn from others, it's very problematic.

I'm glad you're able to consider all the information available to you and draw your own conclusions. I think most people are able to do that. Which is why I think it's so important to present as much information as possible and trust that others are just as capable of doing that as we are. 

ARZone hopes no one ever feels a need to meet a certain criterion to be welcomed here.

 

[Maynard S. Clark]

Well, there IS support.  While welfarists HAVE (a) participated AND (b) been interviewed as guests, the 'spirit' or 'animus' seems to be thoroughly abolitionist and self-critical.

The organizers' in their labor of love have given us a venue through which we can work together and think together with one another, without which some of us might have passed from the pages of human history without reaching a more critical self-awareness, nor appreciated the depth and extensiveness of the work already done in the past and going on now in building abolitionist vegan culture for the entire species.

[red dog]

I can't add much to this discussion, but I agree with what many others have written here: The article by Corey Wrenn wasn't especially well written or well thought out, and ARZone doesn't deserve her mean-spirited attack. Not having been familiar with Peter Young's work or his writing, and having really only heard his name in connection with a mink release that happened years ago, I wasn't sure what to expect from the chat. I found his answers intelligent, thoughtful, and moderate in the good sense of the word. The questions were very good too.

The nasty Examiner article really seems out of place, as you've all pointed out--but I admit I'm tempted to steal Corey Wrenn's idea and blog about the upcoming chat with Dr. Vlasak. Let's hope I can come up with something fairer to advance the discussion.