FACTORY FARMED ANIMALS TORTURED AND SLAUGHTERED TO FEED SO CALLED "COMPANION ANIMALS"

[Nath Miles]

It is becoming clear that as a society we are becoming more and more speciesist.

 

What do you think about those who feel it is completely ok to factory farm, torture and slaughter animals so as to feed them to sustain so called companion animals (dogs and cats) rather than having them put to sleep?

 

 

Does this not seem to be completely hypocritical?

 

Many prominent animal rights advocates struggle with this question.

With many feeling the best way forward is the one with the "least harm" to ALL animals.

If this is the case then it would appear that the "least harm" would then be to humanely put the huge over population of excess companion animals to sleep as to keep them alive and sustain them hundreds of animals would have to suffer and  die.

 

So why is it that our society has become so speciesist?

 

[red dog]

No, it isn't that simple, Nath. It's your backward, oversimplistic attitude that has turned what could have been an intelligent conversation about Vegedog, Vegecat, etc., into a meaningless exchange of ignorance. My dog's original rescuer had more than 200 dogs at one point and she couldn't afford to care for them properly. The community helped her, and is still helping her. Many of her rescues have since been adopted and she's down to about 50 now. They're better off than before, but we're still trying to work out a plan to help some of the larger dogs who have been waiting years to get adopted and are going to be difficult to place. (Tiny dogs are more popular as companions here in Korea.)

 

Do you have any ideas that would result in these dogs finding their forever homes *this year* rather than two or three years down the road? Or would you just come in with an order giving the rescuer 10 days to buy licenses for all her dogs "or else"?

[red dog]

Yes, it's a very complicated issue and I don't think I can address all the points you've raised here ... but you made a really important point toward the end. Many people are afraid of veganism because they mistakenly think it's unhealthy--even for humans. Just to get *humans* to eat vegan, we still need to correct a lot of misconceptions. Vegan diets for cats and dogs are even newer, and people are even more afraid to "experiment" on their best friends. That's how a lot of us perceive it. It would be great if we could have a friendly, non-trollish discussion about how best to transition our dog and cat friends to vegan diets.

[Kerry Baker]

Yes Red Dog I can sympathise.  Nath, I don't particularly wish to live in a society where pet ownership is a privilege of the wealthy. I firmly believe children should have pets and that having them teaches kids compassion. When I investigated what happened in Sydney when they brought in mandatory microchipping one person said to me, 'Sometimes they beg us to let them have their pet back, but we don't, because we can't'. When I asked if the pet was then usually killed she said yes. I don't think those people who tracked down their pet but could not afford to get them out were irresponsible. Just poor.  Imagine Nath what it must be like for those individuals who have tracked down their pet only to be turned away because they are on hard times, knowing their beloved pet is to be killed. I believe that pet registration should be free and that desexing can be subsidised or get vets to contribute some pro bono work. It is always cost that's given as the reason why it can't be free, but if pet registration was initially brought in to identify pets as opposed to ferals, then surely it is a community issue and can be managed by a small addition to council rates on all homes.  Here it costs $24 to register a desexed cat. At the moment there are large numbers of animals being turned in due to the global financial crisis.  Horses in Ireland are being turned out to fend for themselves and are starving to death because their owners can't afford to keep them. There are an estimated 10,000 horses in this predicament and possibly up to 20,000 at the moment.

But this discussion is about speciesism and I think it does show that pets are regarded above wildlife but below human animals. I'm still unsure about vegan pets, as I think that animals have a right to live as naturally as they can and I'm not sure that morally I have a right to make my pets conform to my dietary practices. I am prepared to see how they go but if they don't take to it then I wouldn't force it on them. I will however do my research and more investigation, then make my decision. I was interested in the former post and would be curious to know if any other contributors to this forum have had success in converting pets to vegan diets.

[red dog]

Well, first I want to be clear that I don't support the continued breeding of "pets." Also, I waited a long time to adopt because I wanted to be in a stable situation with as few "what-ifs" as possible, and I wouldn't encourage someone who is destitute or struggling with debts to acquire a nonhuman baby. But if someone is already in that situation, society has a responsibility to HELP both the person AND the nonhuman babies. All too often, animal "welfarists" are so quick to punish the humans they've deemed irresponsible that they end up punishing the nonhumans too. The example you cite in Sydney is an absolute disgrace.

 

Fortunately there are more low-cost spay-neuter clinics and low-cost vet services available than there were in the past, but these programs need to expand and they need to cover poorer areas of the world and serve places where "community animals" are more common than "pets." If rich organizations like the SPCAs and humane societies in Canada and the United States got their act together, they'd be able to save all the animals in those countries and then reach out and help rescuers in other countries too. It makes me extremely angry that their leaders are so completely lacking in vision.

 

I think it would be a good idea to discuss vegan cats and dogs in a separate thread, one with a friendlier atmosphere.

[blackpanther]

yes, but I don't understand why speaking about vegan food for pets brings so many conflicts....as I said before, seen from France, it's difficult to understand....

farm animals are not bred for animal food, but for PEOPLE's food, and only "uneatable parts" for humans go to animal food......

we all want an ideal world in which no animal will be exploited in any way any longer , but after reading a post here where I learned there are "good" vegans and "bad" ones, I think it's not for tomorrow.......

[DEN FRIEND]

There is a bit of an assumption here that it is the 'poor' who are responsible for the number of unwanted and abandoned animals. They are certainly responsible for some but the major culprits (in the UK) are puppy farms and 'breeders'. In Brighton it is free to spay and neuter your cat. We plan to make it free for dogs too. We have vets on board who are prepared to help as well as the RSPCA who provide vouchers for a dog to be spayed for £10! In Brighton it is a requirement by the council for anyone who breeds more than 2 litters to be licensed, not one person has a license! We are going to be pro active in tracking down these breeders who do not have the neccesssary paperwork and force the council to enforce THEIR rules. We are also going to campaign for compulsory spay and neuter. We hope that one day it will be the responsibility of the breeder to spay and neuter before they sell a dog. Sometimes I and the people I work with can't pay our mortgages because we have extortionate vet bills. Having said that the vet I use for my cats opens her surgery one Sunday a month and carries out spays and neuters all day for free. If we can encourage all vets to 'put something back' into their community, it would be a start. I think you can be an abolitionist and still be involved in welfare. In the short term we have to be!

[red dog]

That's a really good point but maybe you've misunderstood ... it's not really the topic of vegan pet food that I see bringing out the conflicts. I think Nath started this thread with an agenda, and no amount of VegeCat will satisfy him. Anyway, thanks for the great info you posted in the other thread ... I'll reply as soon as I can.

[blackpanther]

"I think you can be an abolitionist and still be involved in welfare. In the short term we have to be!"

phew, I'm happy to read that! I was beginning to wonder if I'd have to stop all "welfarist-looking actions" to be a "good abolitionist" (if one day I'm a good one.....) LOL

[red dog]

That's amazing that you've made so much progress on free s/n programs ... I think what's happened in other locations is that they start punishing people for non-compliance BEFORE the programs are in place to help people comply. My statement was based on some research Nathan Winograd cited in his book, showing that one of the big reasons (in the U.S.) for not spaying is lack of funds. I'm not sure what your situation is in the UK and to what extent Winograd's ideas apply there ... hopefully he'll address that question in his chat.

[DEN FRIEND]

Roger

This is not a priority. Being involved in one aspect of AR does not mean I cannot be involved in another. That's the same argument trotted out by people who say "what about people?" when they don't know that I am involved in human rights too (the two are inextricably linked anyway)

With respect, you don't know what I am involved in. Of course vegan education is the way forward. In the meantime, whilst we're waiting for everyone to become compassionate, considerate vegans what do you suggest we do, ignore the suffering? It is easy to theorize about what we would like and how we will go about it, but to do nothing about the present situation to my mind is unacceptable.  I believe that people who show a little compassion are probably open to seeing the bigger picture. I know that I am influencing the people I work alongside and so I do see it as education.

[blackpanther]

I totally agree with what you say! we cannot just look at all those animals suffering and do nothing, .....even if we are called "welfarists" when we save a cat or a dog.....

one question: isn't welfarism the way to abolitionism? I see many people think it isn't here. Can you explain why? 

[Sam Hillyer]

Although new here, I have to agree with the above two DEN FRIEND and blackpanther. I find sense in the abolitionist approach, I really do, but people don't change instantaneously like that. Can you seriously say that you didn't come to your approach via being concerned or involved with animal welfare to begin with?