animal "rights" zone ?

[Tina Cubberley]

this is to let all members know i hav desided to leave ARzone - an why .

firstly ,i am completly disgusted by some of the views expresed on this site,an the way other members hav failed to question them. society in general is so rife with prejudise against nonhumans an arrogant ideas about human superiority ,but it is shocking an demoralising to find such views expressed hear of all places . i want no part of a forum wher people defend welfarist half measures an support the exploitation an property status of nonhumans in any way . this is a betrayal of evrything the animal liberation mevement stands for - an if animal rights zone fails to condemn ignorant speciesism lik this then it needs to change its name .

secondly ,i am also disgusted by the lack of support an respect shown for roger yates - he has basicaly had all his briliant hard work hear thrown back in his face . ther are few people (an certainly none on this site ) who understand what this movement needs as wel as he does,or who hav worked so tirelesly for the animals .

in conclusion ,id lik to join him in disasociating myself from the inacurately named animal rights zone ,wher the ideals of veganism an liberation for all sentient beings are undermined by misguided human supremasists who actualy advocate animal use . 

[Tim Gier]

Hi Joshua, the way I see it, the people who are opposed to animal rights would be willing to exploit every weakness in our arguments if by doing they feel justified in ignoring the substance of our claims.  It's only because of that that it's important to me that people accept views I've come to adopt, that is, it's important only insofar as I believe that the movement would benefit from some clarity and consistency.  At the same time, if someone takes the time to make a convincing counterargument to any of the arguments I offer, I'd be compelled to change my mind.

I agree with you though, I've not suggested that anyone exploit bees or interfere in the natural lives of bees when such interference would cause them harm and no one else has suggested that either.  I also agree with you we ought to be focused on the goals we all share and what we all have in common.  I don't think it matters to nonhumans whether one person talks in terms of moral rights and another person talks in terms of not causing harm to those who prefer to remain unharmed.  It's just semantics as far as I can see.  I'd count it as a win if a significant percentage of the population accepted either way of talking - certainly the animals would win either way.

[Carolyn Bailey]

Hi Josh,

You're right, Roger will be very much missed in ARZone, and his choice to leave is a great loss, both to ARZone and to me personally.  I think it's very sad that he has made the decision to leave, rather than discuss the differences he has with Tim's position.

Roger knows how I feel about him, and he knows how sad I am about this. It also makes me incredibly sad to see this being played out so publicly, and in such a nasty way. 

Perhaps it's time for everyone to leave their anger behind and remember why they call themselves advocates.