Creating demand for vegan products

[Kerry Baker]

I was doing an Internet search to see if there are such things as vegan building materials for house construction.  I came across this site;

http://fitvegan4life.tumblr.com/post/18396925380/i-see-this-graphic...

It occurs to me that being vegan is a Catch 22 issue.  People don't ask for vegan products because it doesn't occur to them that building materials, for example glues, may contain animal products.  But unless people start demanding vegan products the options will remain largely unsuitable for the vegan lifestyle.

Perhaps a website that does take people through alternative options for things like building materials could start a greater demand for cruelty free products.  The slow pace of change has been commented on in other discussions and blogs on this site.  I'm wondering if there may be a way to firstly get something on the Net and secondly to make sure it comes up on the first page when people use a search engine to find suppliers of goods and services.

A huge task, perhaps can be done along industry lines, but it might start people becoming aware of how much animal products are unnecessarily used in manufacturing that can be replaced by equally effective goods.

Having said that, I have absolutely no IT skills and wouldn't have a clue where to start.  I wonder if AR Zone people may be able to collectively do something by using the community to research and build websites? 

This may be unrealistic, but I'd be interested to see what others think.

[Jacob Edward]

I'd like to get your thoughts on this post http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-movement-of-relentless-narcis...

Wendy J Cleaver said:

What do you do then Jacob to encourage others to become vegan?

[Kerry Baker]

Hm very interesting article. Perhaps a little bit harsh. I think vegans start out as welfarist, gaining greater awareness until they get the whole abolitionist point of view. For many I suspect the enormity of the problem is too much. And I can understand sensitive people who are badly affected by some of the horrendous treatment we at times see. Somebody sent me an email to protest about the Yulin festival, complete with graphic photos that frankly I wish I hadn't been exposed to. But I do agree that we can't stop, these individuals have nobody else. And I think the welfarist approach only supports cruelty by making people believe that as long as they are being treated 'humanely' there is nothing wrong. Ricky Gervais apparently eats animals marketed as free range, well we know what that means and frankly he isn't a person who I find particularly inspiring. But he is getting some things out there and he isn't the only hypocrite celebrity. Beyonce eats plant based and wears leather to vegan restaurants for crying out loud. Fundamentally I think Francione is right. My only question is whether it is achievable to succeed in ending the commodification of animals (and birds and fish) without needing to be done incrementally. Social movements tend to start slowly then rapidly gain support at some stage, and I think that we are seeing more recognition these past couple of years than before. It's a complex issue for certain.

[Jacob Edward]

I'm in complete agreement with the article :-)  Anyways, I haven't found anybody who would be willing to host the site any time soon... have you come up with anything?

[Kerry Baker]

Thanks Jacob. No I haven't had any luck either.

[Kerry Baker]

Here is a new site that may satisfy needs for the vegan community.

http://www.sproutli.com/

Still to launch but looks promising and I'd encourage vegan business people and consumers to get on board.

[Jacob Edward]

It's a "Vegan Friendly Business"... not Vegan Business... very different

[Kerry Baker]

This website is a listing of businesses and I think it's a start for what we have been talking about. I think people know the difference between 'vegan friendly' and vegan, at least I hope they would but I will suggest they clarify that on their website if it isn't there somewhere when they go live. Also good to see what their categories are, how well they do and level of take up. Obvious things like food and clothing can be found without too much trouble on the Net but I'm more interested in the less obvious, building materials and car tyres etc that there isn't much information about.

[Jacob Edward]

Oh :-).  I was under the impression this site was basically listing off every other grocery store that carried at least one Vegan specialty product (it claims to have a list of 60 thousand businesses right?)... I've actually had a hard time looking up material lists for individual products (definitely doesn't seem to be the same level of transparency with materials as there does foods).

[Kerry Baker]

I understood that the businesses registered with this site had to apply. As it is yet to launch it's a bit hard to see exactly what is there. It has been designed for the vegan community, so I am hopeful it will turn out to be a useful resource. With regard to no-food products, given that this is a vegan site there will be obvious criteria that apply to be able to make product claims. Consumer laws in most countries covering what can and can't be claimed offer some protection. And I think the owners of the site will quickly get feedback should consumers see something that is falsely claiming to be vegan. I'm interested to see what is listed when it does launch.

[Jacob Edward]

I'm very skeptical that over 60 thousand businesses filled out an application with an unknown internet service.

As far as Vegan (non-food) materials, I don't have much experience with this yet, but just looking through home depot's site, none of their products seemed to be labeled with what their made of...  For example:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SnapStone-Raincloud-Gray-9-lb-Urethane-F...

Doesn't give a comprehensive description of what materials go into making it and after a quick google search, grout usually has cement as one of it's constituent materials, and cement kilns are sometimes constructed with animal bone...  I know I'm not going to be making a kiln in my bathroom, but who knows what else uses animal bone...  I would just feel better if I knew what materials went into making these products...

We should come up with a list of generic products (like: paint, lumber, grout, etc) that we feel are in need of further investigation.

I'll start:

Grout

Paint

Glue

Exterior Wood Finish's (though I've found a Vegan company that manufactures indoor wood finish's) 

Fabrics

[Kerry Baker]

Hi Jacob

I think also need to look at alternatives like straw bale homes, shipping container homes, mud brick homes, to see what their environmental effects and components are. Plaster also often uses hair as a binder.

One of the criticisms about being vegan is the number of animals killed through commercial harvesting. That's been statistically proven to still be the least harmful lifestyle, but does raise issues of looking a bit more broadly at other factors so I tend to be in favour of taking time to research these issues.

I'm going into university exams period so won't have much time to turn my attention to this for a few weeks.

[Jacob Edward]

Definitely in favor of more research, though whenever someone says something like:  "It's been statistically proven that X", I have this heuristic that kicks in...

No worries on the exams and good luck :-)

Didn't know that about Plaster though I'm not going to be using plaster in my design either way...