Orangutans as Prostitutes

[Cultural Speciesism Around the Globe.]

The issue of using orangutans as prostitutes seems to be creating a stir at the moment, not least among animal advocates.

Have we not seen enough of what we do, of what we are capable of, of how we'll use other animals for all sorts of reasons, to stop being so freaked out?

Indeed, given the depth of cultural speciesism in our societies, should we not rather expect this sort of thing?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/841/068/757/stop-using-orangutans-as...

[Tina Cubberley]

very true roger - what will it take to finaly convinse us that thers nothing humans wont do to other animals ?even though this is completly sickening ,it is no more so than the fate of the countless billions of nonhumans who suffer an die evry day just to feed an clothe our species - an no surprise,in a world wher nonhuman life is valud only by its usefulness to humans . this is just yet another symptom of speciesism

.this is the species,after all, that will rape cows enslaved for there breastmilk relentlesly ,until there broken bodies are of no further use to the dairy industry. this is the world wher we will cut the throats of other animals,mutilate them an tear the skin from ther bodies, then eat there flesh an drink the milk ment for there children. an yet we act as though using nonhumans for sexual pleasure were something unexpectedly shocking,an somhow worse than all the other atrocitys we inflict.

[Carolyn Bailey]

I wonder what type of person pays to have sex with an orangutan who is tied down and helpless, and how they become that type of person. 

[Tina Cubberley]

the fact that such an outcry is bein made about this issue sends completly the wrong message  . lik other single issue campaigns that enjoy a lot of popularity with activists - fois gras springs to mind -it implies that some kinds of animal use are worse than others.by focusing on a form of use that hasnt been normalized by our society,activists ar etelling the world that the socially acceptable rights violations are not so problematic. this sort of aproach does nothing to confront the prejudise of the infamous "animal lovers" who consume the products of animal exploitation at evry meal,but would expres horror on learning about the prostitution of orangutans .

[Tina Cubberley]

the type of person who cares more about the gratification of there whims an desires than about the suffering of other sentient beings - that is,the vast majority of the human race .unfortunate but true .

i gues they become that way through being born an raised in a society wher nonhumans are objects,nothing more than the sum of the profit or pleasure they can giv to humans.

Carolyn Bailey said:

I wonder what type of person pays to have sex with an orangutan who is tied down and helpless, and how they become that type of person. 

[Kerry Baker]

Historically, and currently, rape has been used as an ultimate degradation.  It goes on in slaughterhouses prior to the animal being butchered.  It is used to destroy cultures and human beings, male and female.  While I am aware of the human sex traffic slaves trade, most brothels use willing humans as an income, presumably people who have a right to choose what clients can and can't do to them.  The use of animals as sex objects is I suspect an economic one, implying that they can be replaced easily so that those with 'special' fetishist tastes can be satisfied.  We have on this site seen a number of posts indicating that animals feel and experience just as we do, and I have no doubt that an animal repeatedly raped will bear the physical and psychological scars through whatever life they may have left.  These animals are kept for years, and who knows how many clients they service in that time.  I totally agree it is yet one more example of how disgusting human animals are in the treatment of others.  But it equally has to be stopped.

[Billy L]

Are most of us vegans because we are shocked by what we learn about how animals are treated, and oppose it? I wonder if that's the number 1 reason. I also wonder if there is any way to understand, as Carolyn mentions, how humans get to the point that they become involved in this type of thing. We have some clues with the Stanford Prison Experiment, but on a gut level, I don't know if vegans can in any way relate enough to the majority, to see the world as the majority sees it. Most of us have omnivorous backgrounds, but all of us object to violence against animals; most people don't. To take it a step further, my theory is that overpowering another being, either by psychological, physical, or fatal means is some kind of easily repeatable, temporary release from social oppression of one sort or another.

[Carolyn Bailey]

I don't believe a person who chooses to eat other individuals, something that is completely socially acceptable, has arrived at his decision based on similar experiences as that of a person who chooses to pay to have sex with another individual who is tied down and quite likely struggling and/or screaming to escape. Whether that individual be an orangutan or a human or other animal. 

My comment was not suggesting I felt it worse, better or different with the victim being an orangutan. I continue to wonder how a person can become the type of person to find such a thing gratifying. 

 

[Tina Cubberley]

it does indeed hav to be stopped -but not in isolation from the wider problem of speciesism in human society.taking this issue -or any single issue -out of the wider context of animal use confuses our message by implying that other rights violations are less of a moral problem. so attacking this issue as though it were unusualy horrific is counter productiv to the movement - to a certain extent,it lets those guilty of other kinds of exploitation off the hook .

Kerry Baker said:

Historically, and currently, rape has been used as an ultimate degradation.  It goes on in slaughterhouses prior to the animal being butchered.  It is used to destroy cultures and human beings, male and female.  While I am aware of the human sex traffic slaves trade, most brothels use willing humans as an income, presumably people who have a right to choose what clients can and can't do to them.  The use of animals as sex objects is I suspect an economic one, implying that they can be replaced easily so that those with 'special' fetishist tastes can be satisfied.  We have on this site seen a number of posts indicating that animals feel and experience just as we do, and I have no doubt that an animal repeatedly raped will bear the physical and psychological scars through whatever life they may have left.  These animals are kept for years, and who knows how many clients they service in that time.  I totally agree it is yet one more example of how disgusting human animals are in the treatment of others.  But it equally has to be stopped.

[Carolyn Bailey]

I agree, Billy! 

Billy Lovci said:

Are most of us vegans because we are shocked by what we learn about how animals are treated, and oppose it? I wonder if that's the number 1 reason. I also wonder if there is any way to understand, as Carolyn mentions, how humans get to the point that they become involved in this type of thing. We have some clues with the Stanford Prison Experiment, but on a gut level, I don't know if vegans can in any way relate enough to the majority, to see the world as the majority sees it. Most of us have omnivorous backgrounds, but all of us object to violence against animals; most people don't. To take it a step further, my theory is that overpowering another being, either by psychological, physical, or fatal means is some kind of easily repeatable, temporary release from social oppression of one sort or another.

[Kerry Baker]

Hi Tina.  That's not what I said.  I agree that all cruelty has to be stopped as much as is possible.  The issue of using an animal for sex however does cross over into a different type of cruelty, whether that be in sex trade DVD's in the form of crush movies or in actual rape.  It goes beyond the usual reasons for consumption of animals, for dietary requirements primarily, which has I agree engendered a whole torture industry in itself.  Using another for non-consensual sex, no matter if it is the teenage in Rogers post or the orangutan, goes outside of anything that can have some sort of rational reasoning behind it.

Tina Cubberley said:

it does indeed hav to be stopped -but not in isolation from the wider problem of speciesism in human society.taking this issue -or any single issue -out of the wider context of animal use confuses our message by implying that other rights violations are less of a moral problem. so attacking this issue as though it were unusualy horrific is counter productiv to the movement - to a certain extent,it lets those guilty of other kinds of exploitation off the hook .

Kerry Baker said:

Historically, and currently, rape has been used as an ultimate degradation.  It goes on in slaughterhouses prior to the animal being butchered.  It is used to destroy cultures and human beings, male and female.  While I am aware of the human sex traffic slaves trade, most brothels use willing humans as an income, presumably people who have a right to choose what clients can and can't do to them.  The use of animals as sex objects is I suspect an economic one, implying that they can be replaced easily so that those with 'special' fetishist tastes can be satisfied.  We have on this site seen a number of posts indicating that animals feel and experience just as we do, and I have no doubt that an animal repeatedly raped will bear the physical and psychological scars through whatever life they may have left.  These animals are kept for years, and who knows how many clients they service in that time.  I totally agree it is yet one more example of how disgusting human animals are in the treatment of others.  But it equally has to be stopped.

[Kerry Baker]

I suspect there isn't all that much difference between rape and mutilation.  People who feel powerless and underprivileged in some way will frequently look for the scapegoat that they can in turn humiliate and abuse.  The abuse that goes on in slaughterhouses is I think a psychological mechanism for those to justify the killing of animals who they have to look in the eyes before they are butchered.  People who became torturers in Greece during the military junta there were chosen because they were average to low intelligence without families and friends, and they were humiliated and broken to make them able to torture in turn.  Absolutely it's a complex issue without a single or easy solution.

[Tina Cubberley]

well,my position would be that enslaving other creatures for any purpose is impossible to justify rationaly -somthing that the vast majority of those complisit in animal torture an murder do not even attemt .the only defense that is usualy offered is that these violent practises are as old as human civilisation. this also aplies to the sexual exploitation of others,both human an nonhuman.

i see them all as being part of the same problem -speciesism. obviously ther is more direct involvment of the individual in the case of the rape of another ,than that of a consumer buying bottled milk or neatly wrapped flesh,sinse in the later case the violense is "disguised" to some extent. those paying for it to continue do not hav to physicaly face the impact of there choises.but i dont see one kind of use as going "beyond" another .that one is not endorsed by society at large only emphasises this societys hypocritical double standards ,rather than showing one atrocity to be "worse" than another .

to each individual who is the victim of any violent rights violation,there suffering is all they know. to them ,comparison is irelevant .
Kerry Baker said:

Hi Tina.  That's not what I said.  I agree that all cruelty has to be stopped as much as is possible.  The issue of using an animal for sex however does cross over into a different type of cruelty, whether that be in sex trade DVD's in the form of crush movies or in actual rape.  It goes beyond the usual reasons for consumption of animals, for dietary requirements primarily, which has I agree engendered a whole torture industry in itself.  Using another for non-consensual sex, no matter if it is the teenage in Rogers post or the orangutan, goes outside of anything that can have some sort of rational reasoning behind it.

Tina Cubberley said:

it does indeed hav to be stopped -but not in isolation from the wider problem of speciesism in human society.taking this issue -or any single issue -out of the wider context of animal use confuses our message by implying that other rights violations are less of a moral problem. so attacking this issue as though it were unusualy horrific is counter productiv to the movement - to a certain extent,it lets those guilty of other kinds of exploitation off the hook .

Kerry Baker said:

Historically, and currently, rape has been used as an ultimate degradation.  It goes on in slaughterhouses prior to the animal being butchered.  It is used to destroy cultures and human beings, male and female.  While I am aware of the human sex traffic slaves trade, most brothels use willing humans as an income, presumably people who have a right to choose what clients can and can't do to them.  The use of animals as sex objects is I suspect an economic one, implying that they can be replaced easily so that those with 'special' fetishist tastes can be satisfied.  We have on this site seen a number of posts indicating that animals feel and experience just as we do, and I have no doubt that an animal repeatedly raped will bear the physical and psychological scars through whatever life they may have left.  These animals are kept for years, and who knows how many clients they service in that time.  I totally agree it is yet one more example of how disgusting human animals are in the treatment of others.  But it equally has to be stopped.